Ungdomshuset Evicted (2 Viewers)

[Janer]

Lazy bastard Moose

 

[needleinthehay]

Hey, just to answer those questions, does it really matter who I am? I have no problem admitting that I only posted on this site because I heard of the situation, and I had to register on this site to post my views and questions, I don't see any shame in that, I don't agree with some site which seems to be elitist and looks down on any outside opinion. If you really think that violence and killing "pigs" is great, I am sorry for you. I wish if a police officer does die, that you would attend the funeral, look their parents or children in the eyes and say it was worth your free house and then you can realise if you are right or wrong.

I will not reply to any hostile juvenile comments, questions or discussion is always welcome. To the person who disagrees about what the IRA did in the past, have you ever gone to the areas affected by such violence? Boys, men and women kneecapped by the IRA hobble around still. Violence begets violence, nothing else. And I wonder if your anti-war in iraq or anti-israel too, that's violence, yet you praise your own, whats the difference? Football riots, love ulster parade, these are not your comrades my friends, these guys are full of hate and are trying to make you follow in their footsteps, they are using you, and most of you are too intelligent for us to lose to sensless violence. Use your minds not your fists. I hope you all make it through this and that the suffering you cause to families is not too much.

 

[Janer]

I am 42 years of age so plz don't throw the kiddie syndrome at me and you want to discuss stuff with me I am more than willing to over a pint.

 

[needleinthehay]

I apologise for guessing at ages, but having read the posts on this forum, the celebration of violence and eagerness to condemn civil views and questions gave me the idea that it is mostly bravado kids shooting their mouths off. Any views and rants by myself are caused by the general amazement at people and their happiness in causing misery. To people mistakenly offended by it, I am sorry.

 

[Janer]

Apology accepted.

Don't think I backed the glorifications of Garda deaths anyway.
Off out to pub now

 

[flashback]

1) What the hell is cultural about ruining a school in the process of rioting, how do you justify that as cultural?! How is this nothing but pure hypocrisy?

I agree that this is not acceptable. Nor is unprovoked violence.

2) Why should the guys squatting there get it for free, or a different location for free? That really does not make sense, it's like when I hear of rich businesses getting tax breaks, that makes no sense - it's the other extreme - and many of your members would be against those tax breaks for businesses, so why should you get a free house?

I believe that the people occupying this house have / had a right to be there. I believe that they had more of a right to be there than some Christian group who, knowing the story with this house, bought it off the govt. The squatters had been in, and taken care of this place, left it open to all comers to go and chill out and drink and talk etc. It was an amenity for Copenhagen, and a place for people to debate shit, talk shit, whatever. A place for freaks and punks. There is no harm in this.

3) To the retard who said he hopes some "pigs" die, are you just a moron? That's all I can say, some poor fecker doing his job to provide for his family and some little idiot who hates his parents and wants free stuff urges for his death. At the end of the day, it's a job, my god you're a sap! I know most would not agree with that so again I apologise if it seems unfair to paint you all with the same brush.

So, some of us have had alterations with cops. For instance they might have driven their car into you, going the wrong way through a junction, with the red light on, and smashed up your bike, and then lied about it to your face, and got a load of other cops to lie about it too. And then taken your bike off you, taken you down the station, and threaten you. Or they might simply beat seven shites of shite out of you. (This didnt happen to me, but my mate. Including boot mark on back, and factured skull to prove it.)
So, yeah, obviously not every cop in the planet is better off dead. I dont believe that anyone should be killed for anything... but I personally hate NY cops, and have little respect for Irish cops at this point. This was not the situation when I was young, this was the situation after having a number of run ins with them, on occasions where I was up to no badness whatsoever.

4) How many of you guys get unemployment benefit? If any of you do, and are protesting about the government or police blah blah blah, again you're biting the hand that feeds you!

Bullshit argument. You absolutely have the right to speak out about the regime you are living in. The fact that they give you unemployment money doesn't enter into it. In fact, it's not their money, its ours. And we choose to do that with it.

5) Why do you feel you have a right to a building that was not built by you, intended for you, paid for by you or was upkept by you? The word bum comes to mind.. if there are 3000 people rioting about a building, why don't all of them get a job, save up 1000 euro each ( i.e a months work at a low paid job, by the way) and you guys would have 3 million euro to buy many a building to squat in? Again, I'm thinking bum. If you don't want to conform to a capitalist or retail way of life, thats fine, but one month's work by 3000 of you guys and you could buy your buildings and go about your way of life. Not too hard.

Not too hard? Alright.
I mean, again, I think just because some christians got some money off some people, and decided they wanted that house does not mean they are entitled to it. The squatters have been in there, done it up, living there, opened it to the public, for years and years. Its a place for people to go. They, IMO, have absolutely got every right to be there. They didn't just stagger into some families gaff, and fuck them out, this is a special house, and, yes, it more or less was built for the purpose it was used for.

6) If you are so against the type of policies established, why do you use public transport, hospitals, school or colleges and many other things? Again you seem to pick and choose what you will take and then anything that seems like hard work, you revolt and say you're against it.

Huh? Again, bullshit. You can exactly pick and choose. You can not agree with eating meat, and not eat meat, and travel on a bus full of people who eat meat. You can not agree with the Corpo building on Wood Quay, and protest. And you can get the bus home after.
So, the black in south africa under apartheid should have... what? Not go to any hospital because they were being fucked over? The argument just doesn't hold.

7) Protesters in Dublin who are planning to meet in Stephen's Green, are you not that bright? In a country with free education, medicine, free legal advice, low crime rate, freedom of expression, unemployment benefits, college grants, and courses that pay you to learn, you are the richest 1% in the world!!!!! You spoilt little brats, how dare you pretend you live in some fucking police controlled, repressive regime?! You are free, and you moan by creating obstacles, some things could be better, but we work to make them better, how many of you have actually voted? Some of you may have, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say a lot of you have not, so shut up or vote.

What is the problem with protesting about things you think are unfair? I work in NYC, and I think the regime here is fucked. And, if people ask me, I will tell them. I didn't think the war in Iraq is justifiable, and I marched in Dublin to protest it. I have every right in the world to protest, and say when I think people are getting fucked over.
Whether it will do anything, or help anyone is another question. But, it is no one's right to call people spoiled for condemning what they perceive as an injustice.

8) Final little thing, you hate things oppressing your way of life, or artistic expression, yet some of you and many people who admire you guys take drugs, what bigger way is there to lose control of everything than by letting some shit pill control your body? But sigh, the police are soooo much worse..

Again... the police are not a choice. I chose not to take drugs. I do not chose to have cops give me shit for no reason at all, I do not chose for them to abuse their power.

So there we go, they're my comments and questions. I hope you will answer truthfully and can help me understand why such actions have to be taken. My god lads, they are people you are hurting, these are not robots, the police involved are men and women, they are parents and children, for fuck sake they are people, and what kind of ideology justifies hurting another person, it sounds like the past. The I.R.A justified butchering and maiming innocents for a so-called cause, STOP THIS FUCKING MADNESS, this is an unwritten history which will crawl up the walls and stain the very surface of any type of society you are trying to create. You will not be remembered in any good light (well maybe joey, the little angry 15 year old who gets 50 euro a week pocket money, who has just learnt the name Chomsky and Marx and feels he is a real Man, and can unshackle the chains of his oppressive leafy cushioned life, he only has two choices of cereal in the morning (his parents are real mean bastards!), HE might remember this event). So treat these so called pigs in a way that you want them to treat you. Grow up retards.

Emm. The fact of the matter is, if a child of 15 reads Chomsky, or Marx, and it moves them, again they have the right to think about it and talk about it. I am not a political person, but I like thinking about science, and I read fairly complex stuff when I was young, and it excited me, and I liked to talk about it, and have people challenge me about the ideas. I dont see how Marx etc is any different.
The second everyone is willing to cow down and simply tow the line, with the idea that not making waves is the best way to slip through life for every one, regardless of all events going on around them, there is a very big problem.
And, dismissing people who think differently than yourself as retards is not a good way to encourage debate.

 

[broken arm]

some things are worth fighting for.

 

[Buzzo]

So there we go, they're my comments and questions. I hope you will answer truthfully and can help me understand why such actions have to be taken. My god lads, they are people you are hurting, these are not robots, the police involved are men and women, they are parents and children, for fuck sake they are people, and what kind of ideology justifies hurting another person, it sounds like the past. The I.R.A justified butchering and maiming innocents for a so-called cause, STOP THIS FUCKING MADNESS, this is an unwritten history which will crawl up the walls and stain the very surface of any type of society you are trying to create. You will not be remembered in any good light (well maybe joey, the little angry 15 year old who gets 50 euro a week pocket money, who has just learnt the name Chomsky and Marx and feels he is a real Man, and can unshackle the chains of his oppressive leafy cushioned life, he only has two choices of cereal in the morning (his parents are real mean bastards!), HE might remember this event). So treat these so called pigs in a way that you want them to treat you. Grow up retards.

You ask for peoples help in understanding the situation and then call them retards. Bet you get lashed out of it.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Any views and rants by myself are caused by the general amazement at people and their happiness in causing misery. To people mistakenly offended by it, I am sorry.

I guess this shows how much the place means to them. If this was some sort of juvenile, reactionary kind of protest, it would be a lot less organised and would have fizzled out as soon as the cops showed up. Im sure that the cops have caused them a lot more misery to be honest and have been doing for a very long time. This is the backlash.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Flashback,
Needleinthehay does make one valid point that you are ignoring - You say you believe the squatters have more right to be there than the group that bought the building. Why? What rights have thay above the actual owner of the building - (regardless of who the owner is)? They were there long enough that they could have regularised their position - why didn't they? If the building was such a resourse why not do the sensible thing and secure it's future rather than whinge now when the real world catches up?

 

[Janer]

Maybe anarchist kids are not the think of the pension in the future type?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I guess but if you want to live in your own little anarchist bubble and pretend the world is something it's not then you really only have yourself to blame when reality catches up with you.

 

[Janer]

Your missing the point.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Explain!

 

[Space]

Flashback,
Needleinthehay does make one valid point that you are ignoring - You say you believe the squatters have more right to be there than the group that bought the building. Why? What rights have thay above the actual owner of the building - (regardless of who the owner is)? They were there long enough that they could have regularised their position - why didn't they? If the building was such a resourse why not do the sensible thing and secure it's future rather than whinge now when the real world catches up?

I'm no expert on the history of Ungdomshuset but from what I can gather from reading up on it is that the house was given to the youth of Copenhagen, then sold from under them .

In 1982 the politicians led by former Mayor Weidekamp gave the house to the youth of Copenhagen, and we named it – The Youthhouse. In the past 24 years, we have been running Ungdomshuset. We have created a music venue recognized internationally, and used by thousands of youths. We have turned the empty rooms into rehearsalrooms and different workshops. The bigger rooms in Ungeren are used for different purposes, from cinemas to punk festivals.

In 2000 the politicians decided that this had to end. Ungeren had to be sold and closed. And Human A/S and Faderhuset was to do the work. But already then, in 2000, the politicians had the choice to sell the house to a foundation formed to let Ungdomshuset continue its activities. But instead they sold it to Human A/S, a fictive company designed to buy the house, and then sell it on to the fanatic christians from Faderhuset. And suddenly the future of the house was in the hands of a rightwing fundamentalistic sect, who sees the crusade against Ungeren as a holy duty.

Today it is hard to see who was used by who – the politicians or Faderhuset. On the contrary, it is easy to see who is the losing part in this conflict is: all the users of Ungdomshuset.

We have for many years tried all options to achieve a political solution on this problem. But for six years we have been ignored by the politicians, while we through the legal courts has tried to postpone an eviction, until a reasonable solution could be found.

From one of the links I posted last night.
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20061214134918699

 

[pete]

I'm no expert on the history of Ungdomshuset but from what I can gather from reading up on it is that the house was given to the youth of Copenhagen, then sold from under them.http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20061214134918699

Several years later Brugsen, a Danish chain of supermarkets, bought Folkets hus, planning to tear down the building and build a supermarket in its place. However, as this was prohibited due to the historic importance of the place, Brugsen sold the ground to the folk music ensemble Tingluti in 1978. For economic reasons Tingluti had to sell the ground to the municipality of Copenhagen after a number of years. The price at the time was DKK 700,000; equivalent to USD $57,285 (in 1978 dollars).[2][3]
In 1982 Folkets hus was assigned to a group of young people — the original founders of Ungdomshuset — although the municipality of Copenhagen still owned the building. It was at this time that the building was given its current name: Ungdomshuset.


In January 1996 Ungdomshuset was ravaged by a fire and discovered to be plagued by fungus and rotten. The municipality of Copenhagen made plans to renovate the building for safety reasons, but encountered resistance from the squatters.


In 1999 the building was set for sale to the highest bidder by the municipality following controversy on the renovation of the building and a refusal from the inhabitants to pay the rent agreed upon in the original contract.

The term "assigned" in lease / property matters has a specific meaning - not sure if that's what's meant here.

 

[flashback]

Flashback,
Needleinthehay does make one valid point that you are ignoring - You say you believe the squatters have more right to be there than the group that bought the building. Why? What rights have thay above the actual owner of the building - (regardless of who the owner is)? They were there long enough that they could have regularised their position - why didn't they? If the building was such a resourse why not do the sensible thing and secure it's future rather than whinge now when the real world catches up?

Alright Nailer...
I thought I did try and cover that point, but, I might not have been clear.
What I mean is, you have two groups vying for this gaff.
You have the Chistians, and you have the squatters, to whom the place was given for use by the former government. It's not like a dude went to work one day and come home to find a gang of kids living there.

The Christians gathered up some money, donated from wealthy benefactors, saw the house, saw who was there and what it was obviously being used for, and approached the govt to buy it.
Now, there is no doubt about the subtext here, the Christians could have bought any house in the city. They didn't, they bought Ungdomshuset. The government was wrong to sell it, but that is a slightly different issue.
The Christians wanted the punks and freaks out, and away from that area. This was their means to their end.
This is clear.
They didn't want the house, they wanted them not to have the house.

Now you have the other group, the occupiers of the house. This group has been in the house for a long time. The house was set on fire, condemned and was done up by those people, and brought back from demolition. They lived in the house, they kept it from falling apart, they used the house every day for a lot of things, opened it to the public for them to use also. I completely believe that, regardless of who owns the deeds, since the house was presented to them to use, and they did use it, and took care of it etc for a long time, that they have every moral right to be there.
I believe that their actions and presence gives them more right than some guy who slaps a few thousand Kroner on a table in some office somewhere.

 

[shin shan]

just heard on the radio in this internet cafe, that its been confirmed that an irish man has been arrested at protests in copenhagen.lets hope they're ok.
fuckin really upset me to see the press photos from inside ungdomshuset, every photo reminded me of dedly times there.
this is such shite. i think i might use all the unemployment money yer man needleinthehay was talkin about and go over to fight cops!

 

[flashback]

Alright Nailer.... here, just wanted to say one more thing, it was a sort of one off this place.
I was only there twice or something, but, something about it was kind of special and different.
At the time I was (even more) amazed with Copenhagen, that it had this sort of thing going on.
It was, for me, a real model of how a city could be run. Very different from NYC.

So, I had this huge amount of respect for Denmark, (like all the scandinavian countries i was in), and these events, particularly in context of the rest of the world right now are particularly sad and disturbing.

That is all

 

[jillface]

3) To the retard who said he hopes some "pigs" die, are you just a moron? That's all I can say, some poor fecker doing his job to provide for his family and some little idiot who hates his parents and wants free stuff urges for his death. At the end of the day, it's a job, my god you're a sap! I know most would not agree with that so again I apologise if it seems unfair to paint you all with the same brush.

as flashback has said, they're not all "poor feckers" doing their jobs. there is a lot of corruption within police forces, and governments for that matter. the old question comes up again, the police are there to police us but who is there to police the police?
and come on man, "some little idiot who hates his parents", don't talk like you know these people you are referring to when you are obviously presuming you know "the type". these aren't kids in slipknot hoodies sitting outside the central bank.

you use various knocking terms to describe the people you are ignorant of, but needlinthehay, if you have a point to argue, why not try do so in a mature way?

4) How many of you guys get unemployment benefit? If any of you do, and are protesting about the government or police blah blah blah, again you're biting the hand that feeds you

the unemployment benefit argument is old and tiring. it is a right to people despite whether or not they have faith in the current government or not.

5) Why do you feel you have a right to a building that was not built by you, intended for you, paid for by you or was upkept by you? The word bum comes to mind.. if there are 3000 people rioting about a building, why don't all of them get a job, save up 1000 euro each ( i.e a months work at a low paid job, by the way) and you guys would have 3 million euro to buy many a building to squat in? Again, I'm thinking bum. If you don't want to conform to a capitalist or retail way of life, thats fine, but one month's work by 3000 of you guys and you could buy your buildings and go about your way of life. Not too hard.

the fact that you suggest people pool together to purchase a building to squat in shows you don't really understand the idea itself. which you have admitted already i just hope you have read some info on the links already posted on here and maybe understand their point of view a little better by now.

6) If you are so against the type of policies established, why do you use public transport, hospitals, school or colleges and many other things? Again you seem to pick and choose what you will take and then anything that seems like hard work, you revolt and say you're against it.

well they're hardly going to revolt against what they're for...?

there are certain aspects of modern society that some people don't agree with and continuously strive towards changing.

sure, the are such great modernities in ireland today like hospitals and public transport, oh yes, praise be to bertie! but even at that they are poorly structured and run. have you met someone who can say they are happy with the health services of ireland? or the public transport system for that matter? pretty shambolic, no?

sure even the politicians themselves admit all of this in the run up to elections, vowing to fix a million and one problems just to get your vote.

7) Protesters in Dublin who are planning to meet in Stephen's Green, are you not that bright? In a country with free education, medicine, free legal advice, low crime rate, freedom of expression, unemployment benefits, college grants, and courses that pay you to learn, you are the richest 1% in the world!!!!! You spoilt little brats, how dare you pretend you live in some fucking police controlled, repressive regime?! You are free, and you moan by creating obstacles, some things could be better, but we work to make them better, how many of you have actually voted? Some of you may have, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say a lot of you have not, so shut up or vote.

for a start, i'm sure the protest in dublin was primarily to show solidarity and perhaps also to raise awareness about the issue..

on the matter of voting, if you feel you have no faith in any of the candidates what are you supposed to do, vote for them anyway?
some people feel their decision not to vote is as relevant as your decision to vote.

ps, unnecessary name-calling will get you nowhere.

8) Final little thing, you hate things oppressing your way of life, or artistic expression, yet some of you and many people who admire you guys take drugs, what bigger way is there to lose control of everything than by letting some shit pill control your body? But sigh, the police are soooo much worse..

em, ok. this is a bit... weird. taking drugs, more often than not, is a personal choice.
being opressed isn't.

also, do you not think maybe the use of recreational drugs is so prominent, and becoming increasingly so, because of the high-stress, money-worried lives we are living.
people do these drugs to escape from their 9-5's etc.
if everyone was happy they probably wouldn't rely on drugs for fun.
no?


maybe i'm not making sense for i am tired and distracted.
oh well, i tried.