What Richard Did (1 Viewer)

[hermie]

Think it deserves a thread of it's own, seeing as genuine 'events' in Irish cinema are a rarity. I thought this was truly excellent. Loads of folk will loathe it what with it being slow and moody, full of spoilt, D4-accented rich pricks and how it steers away from easy answers and quick-fix drama. But no one more than Lenny Abrahamson depicts modern Ireland so clearly.

 

[D0njo]

Looking forward to it when I get a bit of feckin time...

 

[Scientician 0.8]

But no one more than Lenny Abrahamson depicts modern Ireland so clearly.

I would say no one other than Lenny Abrahamson really attempts to depict modern Ireland. I'm not sure how clearly he depicts it though. I loved Adam & Paul, and Garage was all right but Prosperity was embarrassing. I'll probably rent the dvd Of WRD. It's had mixed reviews as far as I can see.

 

[hermie]

I would say no one other than Lenny Abrahamson really attempts to depict modern Ireland. I'm not sure how clearly he depicts it though. I loved Adam & Paul, and Garage was all right but Prosperity was embarrassing. I'll probably rent the dvd Of WRD. It's had mixed reviews as far as I can see.

Really no-one else? I know we hardly have a booming film industry but most Irish movies I see attempt to depict modern Ireland to some extent. Never saw Prosperity, is it really bad? Both Adam and Paul and Garage are stone cold classics for me. Garage in particular. This is more like the latter so perhaps wait for the dvd in that case.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Ah yeah there are others but jaysus they're thin on the ground. I think Abrahamson is the only (or one of the few) who makes films that attempt to say something about modern Ireland which is what I should have said in my post.

 

[David Kronenbourg]

Adam & Paul is amazing. I haven't seen Garage but I might check it out this weekend. I really want to see this.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Where is this on?

 

[washingcattle]

I don't like Abrahamson. I wrote a lengthy diatribe against the irish film industry on this forum when Savage came out and I don't really feel the need to rehash it. The main point of it was that state sponsered cinema probably go some way towards honestly reflecting the state and that at a time when Ireland was awarded the title of best standard of living in the E.U do we really need to make "poor us" films like Adam and Paul etc. It also galled me a little that these films were usually made by middle class toffs who looked at the northside and went "ooh sucks to be you let me make a film about rather than for your pitiful kind". I'll give What Richard Did a go mainly because the premise is interesting and there could be an interesting allegory angle to it but to be honest Adam and Paul and Garage did absolutely nothing for me.

 

[hermie]

I don't like Abrahamson. I wrote a lengthy diatribe against the irish film industry on this forum when Savage came out and I don't really feel the need to rehash it. The main point of it was that state sponsered cinema probably go some way towards honestly reflecting the state and that at a time when Ireland was awarded the title of best standard of living in the E.U do we really need to make "poor us" films like Adam and Paul etc. It also galled me a little that these films were usually made by middle class toffs who looked at the northside and went "ooh sucks to be you let me make a film about rather than for your pitiful kind". I'll give What Richard Did a go mainly because the premise is interesting and there could be an interesting allegory angle to it but to be honest Adam and Paul and Garage did absolutely nothing for me.

Haven't seen or heard of Savages and I'm sure you not alone in that his slow, subtle style does nothing for you; but there's some amount of bullshit in that post above. As far as I know Mark O'Halloran isn't a toff and wrote the screenplay for Adam and Paul about the junkies who used to hang around his apartment block, who he had grown to know and like. It's a sympathetic but not a woe-is-me/us look at their lives. It was an important film that show there was massive inequality in this country even (or perhaps especially) during the good times. Besides junkies, refugees and the disenfranchised are universal to every major city. I really don't see what the maker's background has to do with it so long as it doesn't condescend. What rung of society should a director come from to make a movie with two junkies for lead characters? I suppose everything the Dardenne brothers have done from their similarly well-off Belgium is totally worthless as well? How exactly should he have made a film for rather than about these 'pitiful' people? As far as I know that movie had a pretty universal appeal. And if that movie showed how bad some have it during the good times, What Richard Did portrays how sickeningly wealthy and far-removed some still are in the depths of recession; and so has redressed that perceived imbalance.

 

[washingcattle]

Haven't seen or heard of Savages and I'm sure you not alone in that his slow, subtle style does nothing for you; but there's some amount of bullshit in that post above. As far as I know Mark O'Halloran isn't a toff and wrote the screenplay for Adam and Paul about the junkies who used to hang around his apartment block, who he had grown to know and like. It's a sympathetic but not a woe-is-me/us look at their lives. It was an important film that show there was massive inequality in this country even (or perhaps especially) during the good times. Besides junkies, refugees and the disenfranchised are universal to every major city. I really don't see what the maker's background has to do with it so long as it doesn't condescend. What rung of society should a director come from to make a movie with two junkies for lead characters? I suppose everything the Dardenne brothers have done from their similarly well-off Belgium is totally worthless as well? How exactly should he have made a film for rather than about these 'pitiful' people? As far as I know that movie had a pretty universal appeal. And if that movie showed how bad some have it during the good times, What Richard Did portrays how sickeningly wealthy and far-removed some still are in the depths of recession; and so has redressed that perceived imbalance.

Adam and Paul is as subtle as a fucking nail bomb.

Like I said the diatribe was directed at Irish cinema in general not just at Abrahamson, cinema is and always has been a predominantly middle class indusrty. so your point there is misinformed and moot to be honest.

My point then as it is now is that Ireland continually produce two types of film,
A.rubbish cliche comedy usually funded in part or totally by americans who want a cliche Ireland or

B. Hard hitting isn't life tough things like Adam and Paul.

Every now and again something like the Guard comes along and is something different.

For me neither the tough gritty approach or the cliche really holds any appeal for me I lived in Dublin in working class areas for 30 years and only the Roddy Doyle films come close to relivant.


We should be capable of creating a midground between the two and when we do we'll finally be able to use cinema and it's language to it's full extent. Werner Herzog might call it a democratized or extatic truth . For me cinema in Ireland fails to relate to the society because it wants to emulate to many styles instead of relating directly to the broader society. We did have the highest standard of living in the EU and cinema still paints us as being impoverished and brutal. It is a flaw it's not bullshit and by the way the best Irish film of the past 10 years is called Silence and it is subtle.

See also Documentaries His and Hers, Pajama girls, The House, Ballymun Melody

If What Richard Did is good I'll say I thought it was good. I don't particularly want to go through this debate again so I'm leaving it there.

 

[Cormcolash]

I'm gonna make a film about Everton

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I'm gonna make a film about Everton

You had a cameo in Accelerator didn't ya? As the hurley wielding loyalist?

 

[David Kronenbourg]

they should make a film about this thread

 

[hermie]

Adam and Paul is as subtle as a fucking nail bomb.

Like I said the diatribe was directed at Irish cinema in general not just at Abrahamson, cinema is and always has been a predominantly middle class indusrty. so your point there is misinformed and moot to be honest.

My point then as it is now is that Ireland continually produce two types of film,
A.rubbish cliche comedy usually funded in part or totally by americans who want a cliche Ireland or

B. Hard hitting isn't life tough things like Adam and Paul.

Every now and again something like the Guard comes along and is something different.

For me neither the tough gritty approach or the cliche really holds any appeal for me I lived in Dublin in working class areas for 30 years and only the Roddy Doyle films come close to relivant.


We should be capable of creating a midground between the two and when we do we'll finally be able to use cinema and it's language to it's full extent. Werner Herzog might call it a democratized or extatic truth . For me cinema in Ireland fails to relate to the society because it wants to emulate to many styles instead of relating directly to the broader society. We did have the highest standard of living in the EU and cinema still paints us as being impoverished and brutal. It is a flaw it's not bullshit and by the way the best Irish film of the past 10 years is called Silence and it is subtle.

See also Documentaries His and Hers, Pajama girls, The House, Ballymun Melody

If What Richard Did is good I'll say I thought it was good. I don't particularly want to go through this debate again so I'm leaving it there.

Apart from your gross generalising you seem to totally forget that film in question deals with the super-rich in contemporary (i.e. recession) Ireland. And despite the fact that the lifestyles on display were very far removed from my lot growing up I found it extremely resonant. And you fail to adequately explain why you think that directors from middle-class backgrounds should not portray the working class on screen in any case. That logic is horribly flawed if you ask me.

To lump the likes of Lenny Abrahamson and others in with the sort that deal in US-financed Paddywhackery is extremely unfair.

 

[hermie]

Where is this on?

http://www.rte.ie/ten/cinema_listings.html?movie=162082

 

[Milker]

Interesting debate.
I liked the comic/tragic relationship between Adam & Paul. Kinda Captain Boyle & Joxer-esque. Kinda. Boyle & Joxer meet Rozencrantz & Gilderstein...any two-hander is gonna come off that way anyway I guess but I liked that a Sean O Casey play was something that I got coz I'm Irish.
I get what Washing Cattle is saying and all but it seems one overlooked truism of 'successful' Irish cultural expression is the 'love it/hate it' camps that arm up and unleash comment. This WRD seems to be a case in point. Seems overpraised & castigated at the same time. You'd be forgiven for thinking there was a hidden agenda behind some of the praise/castigation. I wonder if movies like this or A&P were set & made in the uk would we forgive the imperfections.

I hope to see WRD w no preconceptions. I hope to be able slate or praise it on its own merits. Probably won't be able to tho coz I'm Irish.

 

[nooleen]

Interesting debate.
I liked the comic/tragic relationship between washingcattle & hermie. Kinda Captain Boyle & Joxer-esque. Kinda. Boyle & Joxer meet Rozencrantz & Gilderstein...any two-hander is gonna come off that way anyway I guess but I liked that a Sean O Casey play was something that I got coz I'm Irish.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

http://www.rte.ie/ten/cinema_listings.html?movie=162082

Thanks Hermie. Was hoping it would be in Newbridge or Naas but sadly not - at least not this week anyway. Might be a DVD wait.

 

[washingcattle]

Apart from your gross generalising you seem to totally forget that film in question deals with the super-rich in contemporary (i.e. recession) Ireland. And despite the fact that the lifestyles on display were very far removed from my lot growing up I found it extremely resonant. And you fail to adequately explain why you think that directors from middle-class backgrounds should not portray the working class on screen in any case. That logic is horribly flawed if you ask me.

To lump the likes of Lenny Abrahamson and others in with the sort that deal in US-financed Paddywhackery is extremely unfair.

Actually I was lumping him in with the B catergory, the life in Ireland is unbearably miserable brigade.

I didn't say that middle class shouldn't portray working class on screen I said that I was sick of Middle class making films about how absolutely miserable it is to be working class. There's a huge difference there Hermie. The English lad (whose name escapes me right now) that made The Comitments seemed to be middle class and English to boot and still understood Irish working class culture better than the "life is grim brigade" that's my point.

Look I'll put it this way, in England for every Nil By Mouth there's a Billy Elliott or the likes in Ireland we can't do the same and as such it's stunting the output.

That's my opinion anyway. As I said before I will see WRD and if it's good I'll say so.

 

[washingcattle]

I'm gonna make a film about Everton

Didn't Mike Leigh already do one about Everton ?