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hugh

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Ignoring the audience part of it for the moment, I think this idea of the video coming first and song evolving around it is really interesting .... or maybe the two are being conceptualised together. It's clearly what's happening with this thing and it just means that rather than the video being a calling card or selling device for the song, it's completely integrated into it and neither make a whole lot of sense without the other. I think that's pretty cool. The video is phenomenally well done.
 

Lili Marlene

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Ignoring the audience part of it for the moment, I think this idea of the video coming first and song evolving around it is really interesting .... or maybe the two are being conceptualised together. It's clearly what's happening with this thing and it just means that rather than the video being a calling card or selling device for the song, it's completely integrated into it and neither make a whole lot of sense without the other. I think that's pretty cool. The video is phenomenally well done.
I think it can be linked to my half-baked idea that a meme is bigger than a song, people need something meme or gif -worthy in order for it to be a "pop" hit.
 

egg_

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people generally dance and sing along together to stuff everyone knows though, which mostly means old songs
Hmm I guess the most recent of the Big Songs in the-cover-band-I-play-in's set are getting on for 10 years old (Pencil Full of Lead, Edward Sharpe's "Home", Little Lion Man)

... and I just went and looked at "Today's Top Hits" on spotify and I don't recognise any of them
 

Lili Marlene

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Hmm I guess the most recent of the Big Songs in the-cover-band-I-play-in's set are getting on for 10 years old (Pencil Full of Lead, Edward Sharpe's "Home", Little Lion Man)

... and I just went and looked at "Today's Top Hits" on spotify and I don't recognise any of them
It is what it is I guess, 60's fans moaned in the 80's that video killed the radio star, they were right but at its best the music could still be great. There's so many factors that have changed now:

TL;DR POP LIST

a) Bar of entry - people can get a decent beat going for 4 (or 20) mins without leaving their bedroom. There's definitely stuff that still requires big production but a catchy melody or beat you came up with can get from your head to soundcloud a lot quicker than in the old days

b) money - everyone knows how much can be made, there's no room for chancers anymore, everything is sown up by the big names. This has been a 50 year journey in fairness when you look at some of the great fluke hits in the 50's and 60's.

c) coverage - mostly no local charts anymore, it's all one big (small) spotify market.

d) How money is made - It used to be in the industry's interest to get a new song in the charts ASAP because that meant more sales. The charts were kind of artificial in that way, they moved faster than people's tastes. Now a record company doesn't care if it's the same song streaming for 20 years because each stream gets them a bit of money. People's tastes are actually pretty slow.

e) No radio coverage to worry about: someone massive like Frank Ocean or Solange make pretty inaccessible music for a famous, mainstream artists, there's little broad appeal to their stuff because they don't need broad appeal, they can go deep and trust his fans will go with them. Great if you're a fan. It's a pity no one feels the need to write a Running Up that Hill or When Doves Cry anymore though; or more, no one has the pressure to write one, they'd like to but it's not essential.

f) Listeners have access to all the music in the world. Everyone has broad tastes, few people actually go deep into a genre anymore though.
 

ann post

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Is there some notion of genre in the equation too? Commercial rap has an intrinsic link with material aspirations, rags to riches cinderella type thing. Its like almost bad manners to do a rap video without product placement. if it were folk or something we'd be looking for the moment nelsons heart actually breaks or whatever.
 

ann post

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Is there some notion of genre in the equation too? Commercial rap has an intrinsic link with material aspirations, rags to riches cinderella type thing. Its like almost bad manners to do a rap video without product placement. if it were folk or something we'd be looking for the moment nelsons heart actually breaks or whatever.
this post was composed before lili marlene's but i forgot to hit send.

delete the main forum.
 

ann post

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Clearly the work of Peads.

@Lili Marlene i get what you are saying about doves cry type things but, the concept of creating a video/music/meme global vision work is very kate bush/prince style thinking, non?
 

Lili Marlene

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Clearly the work of Peads.

@Lili Marlene i get what you are saying about doves cry type things but, the concept of creating a video/music/meme global vision work is very kate bush/prince style thinking, non?
hmm, perhaps.

In Prince's head he was competing with Miles Davis first, Michael Jackson second; he was very much a music before everything else person, his vault is proof of that. Not saying he wasn't into the image aspect but that tended to be what the public saw first which kind of skewed it all a bit. I think he was happy with some of the bad business decisions he made because he was being precious about his music.

But he also knew he had to get to be Purple Rain famous before he could go off on mad tangents.



Dunno enough about KB, what was she going for in the long run?
 

hugh

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I dunno dude, I've been listening to this song on repeat on spotify all week

GET A HALF OUNCE OF THE SNEACHTAAAA
Yeah, I can see that ..... So, maybe not so much that the song doesn't work independently of the video but that when they were thinking of the song they were as much thinking about how different parts of it might play out visually as much as they were thinking about how they might work "as a song".
 

ann post

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What generally makes a song is being the soundtrack to something. What that is can be completely intangible or glaringly obvious. Once someone has made some kind of visual/sound/dopamine type imprint on their pathetic human brains it's a song for life. Like underwolds born slippy is like a dance music pagent entry but for a lot of people that first chord brings them right back to the first pill they took at college without fail. Music doesn't have to be good if it's the only thing there at the right time #hucklebuck. It's interesting how the video world has sorta become an insidious circle jerk on riff, cynically montaging through things till they hair trigger something relatable. I really notice this when I'm in foreign and I don't know what the words mean. It's progressed into an artform of the insidious that we are a few generations into at this point.
 

Lili Marlene

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What generally makes a song is being the soundtrack to something. What that is can be completely intangible or glaringly obvious. Once someone has made some kind of visual/sound/dopamine type imprint on their pathetic human brains it's a song for life. Like underwolds born slippy is like a dance music pagent entry but for a lot of people that first chord brings them right back to the first pill they took at college without fail. Music doesn't have to be good if it's the only thing there at the right time #hucklebuck. It's interesting how the video world has sorta become an insidious circle jerk on riff, cynically montaging through things till they hair trigger something relatable. I really notice this when I'm in foreign and I don't know what the words mean. It's progressed into an artform of the insidious that we are a few generations into at this point.
Well considering the amount of songs by 20 year old popstars all talking about how good things used to be back when we were young that makes sense.

but then again, Ray Davies would have been all of about 23 when he was writing a song like Days so maybe it's just an obsession we all have when we stop being kids
 

egg_

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It's interesting how the video world has sorta become an insidious circle jerk on riff, cynically montaging through things till they hair trigger something relatable
I think it might be even simpler than that - the video just shows people feeling the feelings that the song is supposed to induce in you. If it's a sexy song the video is porn-y. If it's a sad song there's some sad-looking people in the video. If it's a dance-y song there's people dancing

(the last one is what I was going for with this )
 

Lili Marlene

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I think it might be even simpler than that - the video just shows people feeling the feelings that the song is supposed to induce in you. If it's a sexy song the video is porn-y. If it's a sad song there's some sad-looking people in the video. If it's a dance-y song there's people dancing
Which brings us to the great DEATH OF METAPHOR 2018 debate where everything must be literal because god forbid people have to put some effort into understanding something, or even worse, like something and still not fully understand why.


Sorry, that's not a dig at you, more at the rapgenius way of liking music these days, I GOT THE REFERENCE = experiencing art.
 

hiadudiad?

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I had a listen to that Ketamine song there and didn't watch the video. Maybe there something culturally interesting going on there but musically it's same-old same-old with Dublin accents, is it not? Bag a Gear was way better. People on drugs at festivals and gigs will listen to any old shit with a beat
 

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