Ungdomshuset Evicted (1 Viewer)

[La La]

hello, thanks for writing back those who disagree with me and and are trying to show me the different sides of all of this, as i said before, i am not anywhere near an expert on this topic. Before i write any questions, i do apologise if you feel i unfairly labelled or insulted any one who did not deserve it. I did swear and call people names, i was angry at the posts which so easily wished for violence and death, these posts were from people who were not really involved and it made me angry to feel no person was disagreeing with them. I know my original post would contain a lot of stereotyping and general references that none of us like to be hit with and accused of. I do not understand the emotion behind this event as i am not experiencing it and therefor an outsider. I will not back down on some on the comments that i made, any violence towards a cause is not the way and never will be. I also disagree with believing a person is entitled to money such as the dole if they do not contribute to society, it is a gift from the rest of society, i would say this regardless of who or what you are. To do with the police, yes i understand that there are corrupt parts, we have seen this time and time again. But would you agreee that this corruption is everywhere in society, from police to priests, from business to charity, from emo kids to punks? The fact that such organisation was obvious to many watching the riots would lead me to argue that there is some type of violent element in your community who did urge people to use violence. Obviously i would not argue that you should stand and be beaten up by anyone, we should not lie down and be forgotten, but lighting cars on fire,throwing bricks, vandalising a school ( why? ) are not defensive measures. I really respect the fact that many of you guys are thinking and looking for alternative ways of living, the idea of an alternative society is possible, but i just do not agree with some of your ideas and solutions. But it is sooooo much better having a conversation, even it is a bit hostile, with you friends then having another empty talk about nothing with someone. Since most of us I think are from Ireland, we can talk easily about our common experiences and our differences. I will not judge you guys again, i will not make that mistake again, but allow me the same respect.

please use paragraphs; you're making my eyes go all wobbly!zed !zed !zed !zed !zed !zed !zed

 

[demonica]

Hey again, just to respond to a few of the specific remarks made towards me. I have apologised for name calling. But how come you give out to me for doing it when i explained my reason for doing so, whilst in the mean time TheDonal and Nooly share a jock mocking my online name, W assumes im on crack in his or her argument and people saying a few times that i am a moron. how is this now hypocritical? where is your reaction for those insults/name calling.

Because you said some ignorant and extremely offensive shit. If you upset people they will generally react that way.
Ps "any violence towards a cause is not the way and never will be". Just think about that for one moment and you'll realise it's bullshit.

 

[W.]

Hey again, just to respond to a few of the specific remarks made towards me. I have apologised for name calling. But how come you give out to me for doing it when i explained my reason for doing so, whilst in the mean time TheDonal and Nooly share a jock mocking my online name, W assumes im on crack in his or her argument

Hi, when someone uses the word "retard" twice and calls an entire forum "morons" in their first post on a board then I'm afraid they waive their right to be offended.

I think that rather than one by one addressing the points made, as I did for you, you are instead turning to a grand moralising about who insulted who to distract from the deafening silence of you not replying.

I believe in right to protest, but there is a line that one can cross where it becomes a danger and in that moment the police are tasked with protecting the public. An example that shows how both sides are wrong was the reclaim the streets parade. The police who were involved in the specific crimes committed there were disgusting, removing identification and beating heads, the main police man involved is also rumoured to use such violence on his wife, which if true, he is a disgusting pig, a weak pig. But that protest had no right to reclaim the streets. The streets of Dublin were never ours, we got the footpaths or shit little areas at the side, streets were made for horses, they should reclaim them not us. They had more rights to them then we did.

Our society has a great tradition of civil disobedience the idea that something is wrong just because it's illegal or steps slightly beyond the parameters of acceptable/controllable resistance is quite bizarre. The streets of our city are regularly shut down by the state for celebrations, on the day in question the people of dublin shut down a street by themselves for their own celebration and to make a point about the dominance of car culture - they were severely beaten.

Ironically enough the entire area around which most of the action took place is now being pedestrianised. While horses may have once used the road historically and been replaced by cars, the trajectory of history is actually still moving forwards, so counterposing a pedestrianisation along with creation of zones for public socialisation and a strong public transport system is actually not even that radical a demand - most european cities have the same.

So thats way off the point, but the point is we cannot blanket an entire police force nor blanket your entire community with one single opinion based on experience or ignorance.

What an asinine statement.

 

[needleinthehay]

Sorry, I will use paragraphs. The only answer in reply to who does own the streets is a fairly obvious answer. We all own the streets. The country and the people own them. It does not give any small group a right to hijack the streets from everyone else though. It does not give the police in the occasion to over react.

Why are you guys picking on me for losing my temper, then i apologise clearly, some of you still concentrate on the original post even though i did apologise. If I was not some stranger, would this be the same? In my life i have seen groups which fought for their way of life, most never succeeded because they were so elitest, they could not even speak out against their fellow members when it was obvious they were in the wrong. I am not fond of the current government, yet it is a lot more civil then what i have seen here, I do not think I will continue using this site.

You preach alternative society and alternative thinking, yet you attack an outsider, even when they have apologised twice! You guys have not shown one bit of remorse. This reminds me of the way the goths were in South Park, conform with the non conformists. Some of you have been polite and suggested readings which i thank you for, I will read it. How could you ever think your way of life could happen when this is how you react to me, imagine what it would be like from everyone else in the country.

Even if i do not believe what i write, i raised issues you know well the majority of people do believe so you have to be prepared to deal with them, and for most of you, you failed that. You preach some good points and make valid arguements, yet your pride seems to have shielded you from disagreeing with others when they are in the wrong. I say this and give this forum as my evidence, i have only seen one person dissagreeing with your views apart from myself.

In life, it is not what you say ( i.e your ideology ) which will make the difference but what you do. I will not argue with some of the good points made by you, because I would agree with them. But points are only a small thing, the behaviour of the violent members and the preaching of violence and death ( only handful of members admitted it was wrong ) makes your message invalid. Communism and other leftist ideals are great, in thinking, yet the behaviour of their leaders made the whole idea of communism just as bad as fascism.

I am sorry we could not discuss this more, but there is a threatening attitude in this forum and seeing how people are trying to find out who I am, this does not give me the safest feeling. Thanks to the people who saw my posts, realised my understandable anger, saw past that and tried to explain the real issues at heart

 

[demonica]

I am sorry we could not discuss this more, but there is a threatening attitude in this forum and seeing how people are trying to find out who I am, this does not give me the safest feeling. Thanks to the people who saw my posts, realised my understandable anger, saw past that and tried to explain the real issues at heart

I'm not an anarchist and you won't often find me a a protest and do not stand for everything w stands for and as such am have an open mind. From what I have seen, you don't seem to be able to answer any of w's points and I can't help but feeling that the only reason you won't come back is because you are being made to look a fool.
Good luck.

[edit] that's really badly put! theres a point there somewhere

 

[W.]

Sorry, I will use paragraphs. The only answer in reply to who does own the streets is a fairly obvious answer. We all own the streets. The country and the people own them. It does not give any small group a right to hijack the streets from everyone else though. It does not give the police in the occasion to over react.

Actually I covered how people do have the right to do this. Maybe you could respond to my points?

Why are you guys picking on me for losing my temper, then i apologise clearly, some of you still concentrate on the original post even though i did apologise. If I was not some stranger, would this be the same? In my life i have seen groups which fought for their way of life, most never succeeded because they were so elitest, they could not even speak out against their fellow members when it was obvious they were in the wrong. I am not fond of the current government, yet it is a lot more civil then what i have seen here, I do not think I will continue using this site.

This is little more than a clever exit strategy, you obviously hadn't expected people to reply with structured arguments to your rants so now you're legging it under the pretense of being offended.

You preach alternative society and alternative thinking, yet you attack an outsider, even when they have apologised twice! You guys have not shown one bit of remorse.

More of the same..

This reminds me of the way the goths were in South Park, conform with the non conformists. Some of you have been polite and suggested readings which i thank you for, I will read it. How could you ever think your way of life could happen when this is how you react to me, imagine what it would be like from everyone else in the country.

You seem to view the community as insular, this weekend for example an anarchist bookfair in Dublin was attended by 500-800 people. We are more than capable of engaging with the public and arguing our positions thanks.

Even if i do not believe what i write, i raised issues you know well the majority of people do believe so you have to be prepared to deal with them

A great substitute for debate, stating that your ideas are the main ones in society as though that somehow validates them and renders you exempt from debating them.

In life, it is not what you say ( i.e your ideology ) which will make the difference but what you do. I will not argue with some of the good points made by you, because I would agree with them. But points are only a small thing, the behaviour of the violent members and the preaching of violence and death ( only handful of members admitted it was wrong ) makes your message invalid.

I'm quite sure you have no idea what these people do. The day to day running of Ungdomshuset is of course no concern of yours, either is the struggles anarchists are involved in like rossport, trade unions, etc.
The violence of the Copenhagen youth is a reaction to extreme provocation, they are fighting for the only space in Denmark which operates even slightly outside the dominant Capitalist culture.

Communism and other leftist ideals are great, in thinking, yet the behaviour of their leaders made the whole idea of communism just as bad as fascism.

We're libertarians, we organise horizontally, no leaders as such.

I am sorry we could not discuss this more, but there is a threatening attitude in this forum and seeing how people are trying to find out who I am, this does not give me the safest feeling. Thanks to the people who saw my posts, realised my understandable anger, saw past that and tried to explain the real issues at heart

This is silly, nobody is trying to find out who you are - you are either very paranoid or very dishonest.

 

[Janer]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=571_1172950717

Video

 

[W.]

 

[Lili Marlene]

Hey again, just to respond to a few of the specific remarks made towards me. I have apologised for name calling. But how come you give out to me for doing it when i explained my reason for doing so, whilst in the mean time TheDonal and Nooly share a joke mocking my online name, W assumes im on crack in his or her argument and people saying a few times that i am a moron. how is this now hypocritical? where is your reaction for those insults/name calling. You preach your message of different thinking and respect for it, yet many of you do the same.

Seriously though, why should anyone here want TheDonal or Nooly to apologise? They never made any claim in their initial posts that they didn't want to insult anyone. You did.

I don't know if you've never seen an internet forum before or something but there is no claim that everyone will be treated exactly the same irregardless of their actions. Some people have been posting for years and an online persona of sorts develops, you only have less than ten posts for your persona to be gauged.

It seems like really basic stuff here you're not getting but i'm just spelling it out for you in case you don't know about it.

 

[jess]

Is that what i think it is ????

Ah man thats a very sad sight indeed

 

[directhit]

needleinthehay , your whole attitude is just attack, attack, attack - each new post you are just clutching at straws, the biggest one being your first post. and you starting crying when people attack you? grow up.



to W. good comments and articulate replies.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

You seem to view the community as insular, this weekend for example an anarchist bookfair in Dublin was attended by 500-800 people. We are more than capable of engaging with the public and arguing our positions thanks.

I believe more than twice as many books were sold than last year.

 

[needleinthehay]

I do not believe my attitude or behaviour is attack attack attack and then run away when people attack me. I was criticised for being crude and what not, so i apologised twice, how is this attack attack attack directhit? why would i apologise if that was my goal. I only expect the same treatment. thats not really crying or running away. So why would you say that?

Demonica, I will try and answer some of W questions in a second. It's hard to answer everything because so many people are commenting so it takes a little time. Remember I am only one, i do not have too much free time and i do not have any friends here trying to help me out. So hang on an i will try answer.

Right so in reply to W, from the post 03:26 on the 4th. Your first point is valid and indeed i cannot say it is wrong because it is a matter of opinion, my opinion would differ. I believe that if they were legally entitled to the house, then yes it should not be taken away from them, if it is not legal, I would say they aint then.

Second point. The whole issue of calling that guy a retard was pretty obvious. Yes i have been searched, harassed and let down by guards before. My brother was held for a period of time, tortured and eventually released by scumbags, the guards when contacted did actually nothing. So yes i can understand feelings of annoyance and anger. But I grew up with neighbours who were guards, friends who have become guards and so on, these are good people and i would never say a bad word about them or wish any harm on them despite other guards behaviour.

The third point is a bit confusing to be honest. My main point when writing this was there is a proportion of unemployed people who get the dole, do not contribute to society and are lazy. THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE. I do not want them to starve, but for society to work in its best capacity, eveyone has a role to play. I do not understand any alternative forms of society where labour is not exchanged for food,clothes etc. How would anything get done? If nobody worked, how would we have food, clothes etc.

The next point, we talked about that earlier, whether they have the right to building or not. I am glad some people do buy social centres, it seems like a fantastic idea.

The next point again, is aimed at the specific people who blast the dominant way of life, whilst not engaging in politics, local communities or voting, yet take the things like transport or hospitals for granted. THIS DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE

Of course i believe in the right to protest, just not violent protest. I understand your point, but what do the majority of the danish people think? I know that if riots occured in Ireland, I would be pissed off if people came over from other countries to take part. But protesting like you said is one our basic rights, cannot say anything bad about that.

Yeah the I.R.A statement is irrelevant. I was just using it because a lot of people from Ireland are here. I would argue that you are giving the inital cause for the I.R.A's existence, but forgetting to mention that the cause was twisted by some of its members for evil, i.e the killing of innocent people no way associated with the troubles.

Last point was about the police. The police have to protect families and the unprotected, so when riots occur, and it is not dispersing, they have to use force. I do not personally agree with it, but thats the way it is and the way they would argue.

 

[jane]

This is a really interesting thread, and in a lot of ways has illuminated stuff I never even thought to ask.

It's really sad to hear about this youth centre, and the fact that the way it's being reported is as if it was just some illegal squat (because the word 'squat' in IReland obviously conjures up a very different image than it does on the Continent, where squatting is more accepted), which suggests that it's just a bunch of bums getting their freeloading comeuppance. Nowhere have I actually heard it noted that the city gave the building to the youth centre folks, which seems like bad reporting to me. A lot of people who would not otherwise have any time or sympathy for squatters would probably be appalled at the actions of the Danish officials if the situation were properly explained.

And needleinthehay, I see some of your points, and yeah, I'm not an anarchist, and I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that people on here stand for, but at least they have the balls to be big moanyholes and march through the streets. If a few people misbehaved (and I'm not suggesting that they did, just speaking hypothetically) during the RTS demo, that doesn't mean that the entire point of it has lost validity. It just means that someone did something that sparked something else.

There is more than one kind of political voice. I also believe people should vote, but there are people on here who don't agree. However, it's also important to express views publicly in a number of ways, one of which is public protest. And if more people were willing to be big moanyholes and spend a Saturday afternoon expressing their dissatisfaction publicly, the corporate takeover of Ireland would probably not be quite so wholesale.

I also think that even if the city hadn't given the building to the youth centre, it's still important to look at it in the context of a city where squatting is more accepted than it is in Ireland.

And people in Ireland have found ways to make alternative spaces for cool stuff -- the Seomra Spraoi being a real achievement. If it were just a bunch of useless doley bums waiting for handouts, I don't think that would ever have happened. And in any case, the dole isn't a 'gift', it's actually something people are entitled to, and no one is required to feel a debt of gratitude to every working schmoe in town. Sure, there are people who go on the dole just to be lazy, but to be honest, I don't give a crap if someone is on the dole -- it's not any of my business, and I wouldn't expect anyone to justify their social welfare before I listened to what they had to say.

 

[Janer]

Yeah the I.R.A statement is irrelevant. I was just using it because a lot of people from Ireland are here. I would argue that you are giving the inital cause for the I.R.A's existence, but forgetting to mention that the cause was twisted by some of its members for evil, i.e the killing of innocent people no way associated with the troubles.

And none of the British soldiers or their intelligence services were?
War is Hell
Hell is War

and when you say alot of people from Ireland are here that surely hint's that you are not?
and if not maybe that's why some of your views were "lost in translation"?
ie came out not the way you expected them too.

 

[needleinthehay]

Do you think people should be allowed stay on the dole their entire lives, should we as a community not try and put a stop to the dole in general, not because we dont want to help, but because we should work for a society that has no poverty, no need for hand outs and then we can focus on real problem areas like half the world who could really use dole money, we have full employment, there are plenty of jobs out there in Ireland, so could not we put this money to better use then it is being used for?

 

[Janer]

I take it ur replying to Janie?

 

[needleinthehay]

why does the british evilness make the I.R.A's crimes a right?? a teenager does not deserve to die because he went out with a catholic girl. just because the english services were behavinh badly does not give us the right too. Are you implying any racial tones there by the way? If i was not Irish, why would that make a difference? I can assure you i am Irish, from Leinster,from Dublin, from the Northside. But that questioning is kinda racist? Are you going to ask me if im gay now? What business is it of yours?

 

[Janer]

Now ur trying to be a smart arse and twist my words.......

bye.

 

[Janer]

why does the british evilness make the I.R.A's crimes a right?? a teenager does not deserve to die because he went out with a catholic girl. just because the english services were behavinh badly does not give us the right too.

But the IRA never killed anyone because they went out with teenage gals

and about the English intelligence/security services the IRA responded to alot of their war crimes.

I am from the northside too....when is that pint bud?