To Click Track Or Not To Click Track (2 Viewers)

[Goodbye]

that is the question.

Does anybody else feel that playing to a click track kills the performance stone dead?

If I lash down an idea, I dont use one.
Throw down a few other instruments to flesh out the idea.
Sounds deadly. Sloppy and out of time, but still deadly.

Ok, lets record it "for real" using a click track.

Dead. dead. dead. lifeless shit.

Anyone else want to share an opinion/experience/recipes?

 

[HMD]

you may as well program the drums if you're going to use a click.

 

[coast to coast]

that is the question.

Does anybody else feel that playing to a click track kills the performance stone dead?

If I lash down an idea, I dont use one.
Throw down a few other instruments to flesh out the idea.
Sounds deadly. Sloppy and out of time, but still deadly.

Ok, lets record it "for real" using a click track.

Dead. dead. dead. lifeless shit.

Anyone else want to share an opinion/experience/recipes?

Everytime!

Well, not every time, but it sure as shit happens a lot. But then again I record things on my own, layering everything one at a time, so not playing with a click-track isn't really an option for me because I don't have a kit to practice on so much that I have Ringo-esque non-rhythm-losing abilities.

I'm of the opinion that the human flaws of playing sans click-trick are not the end of the world. I find if I'm trying to write the song as I still record it, it can be difficult to get a good performance anyway, as you're perhaps not comfortable with the music anyway. Still the human aspect of it is preferable but not always doable. I think Money by Pink Floyd speeds up loads, as I'm sure do a lot of tunes.

 

[george mcfly]

as long as you don't beat detect the drums afterwards it can sound just fine

 

[Goodbye]

I think the going out of time thing is acceptable when playing as an ensemble.
Like Neil Young records with everybody collectively in the "vibe" giving it socks, speeding up and slowing down. I tend to do that depending on the "emotion" of the song.

But these days I dont have the luxury of having a band "on call", so "jamming" a song needs to be pretty strict, hence the click track, otherwise each instrument goes out of time in their own little way (not all at the same time like playing in a band).

But the payoff is lifeless sounding music. Sigh.

 

[Goodbye]

I actually play the drums on a midi keyboard, and I DONT quantize them afterwards in order to sound more "human"

They kind of float along with the click track.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

sometimes you need them, like if you have big gaps in the sound and you might not be able to get everything right on the beat together or something like that. other times it doesnt matter a fuck

 

[Pantone247]

I use a click on everything, actually what I do it set a tempo and program a drum machine... that's the first step in making it more "natural'... once I get a guide guitar (or something) down I'll probably turn off the click and never refer to it again, but at least I know I'm starting off right

BUT I do a lot of editing when I'm making songs, delete half the second verse, remove a middle eight, patch a bad bar of drums, patch an entire verse of bad drums... paste together an entrie third verse, I'm fairly shameless... there's no way I could do this without a click. I try do things like use loops of me drumming that are a little "out" or make a looped bass line sound 'looped', try to make it a feature rather then pretend it's "live"

About a year ago a certain well GROOMed singer songwirter came over to my house to bash out a song, refused the click and just got busy... two hours later mass confusion trying to put a keyboard track to the exsisting, and when I went back to try and bass or drum along, it was a total joke... it all sounded great as a one off, but as the bones of production it was a waste of an afternoon. Me = lesson learned!

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Hmm.
On the one hand, click tracks are really for the benefit of the studio dudes.
As in the engineer who wants to be able to edit to a grid, beat detective or easily drop sections into different places in the song.
On the other hand, and I'm talking in a recording a band context rather than lashing down a tune at home, some songs work better with a click, and some work better without.
Some drummers work better, some without. Some BANDS work better, some without.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I use a click on everything, actually what I do it set a tempo and program a drum machine... that's the first step in making it more "natural'... once I get a guide guitar (or something) down I'll probably turn off the click and never refer to it again, but at least I know I'm starting off right

BUT I do a lot of editing when I'm making songs, delete half the second verse, remove a middle eight, patch a bad bar of drums, patch an entire verse of bad drums... paste together an entrie third verse, I'm fairly shameless... there's no way I could do this without a click. I try do things like use loops of me drumming that are a little "out" or make a looped bass line sound 'looped', try to make it a feature rather then pretend it's "live"

About a year ago a certain well GROOMed singer songwirter came over to my house to bash out a song, refused the click and just got busy... two hours later mass confusion trying to put a keyboard track to the exsisting, and when I went back to try and bass or drum along, it was a total joke... it all sounded great as a one off, but as the bones of production it was a waste of an afternoon. Me = lesson learned!

recording other people can be very tedious. if they dont get it in one or two takes i start getting very bad tempered.

 

[Goodbye]

I use a click on everything, actually what I do it set a tempo and program a drum machine... that's the first step in making it more "natural'... once I get a guide guitar (or something) down I'll probably turn off the click and never refer to it again, but at least I know I'm starting off right

Thats exactly what I do to, but oftentimes I have to turn back on the click when I'm tracking as my drumming is so sloppy.

Mostly I lash down a guide guitar to a click in order for the structure of the song be apparent when I drum along to it, when "I get into it" I can often float out of time. I guess it all comes down to practice, but I find paying attention to the click track makes you behave like a robot.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

recording other people can be very tedious. if they dont get it in one or two takes i start getting very bad tempered.

Hehehe.

 

[Pantone247]

recording other people can be very tedious. if they dont get it in one or two takes i start getting very bad tempered.

I've only done it once or twice, but it's rarely worked out well

actually another reason for the click is time, if I had time to be great at playing and time to do loads of takes I'd probably not use one... also if I do something today and don't go back to it for a month, it's good to have a click to at least set some sort of structue

I also put markers on the time line with the chord changes...

 

[aled jones]

If you rely heavily on quantization then click tracks are an unfortunate necessity.

I usually just set the computer to record stereo, mess around a bit, then if I hit on something I want to develop, record it again along with the click track later.

It's funny how I always tend to be most expressive/inventive when I KNOW I'm not being recorded.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

does anyone else find that if you have to do more than 2 or three takes at something then its usually pointless because your mind wanders and it lacks energy? i often find that the first take is better than later more technically correct ones

 

[Goodbye]

And having songs that change tempo. Nightmare.

 

[karljacuncha]

no way to a metronome as a click anyway, but defo some sort of basic drum track (but then, i end up programming the drums anyway...)

but eh - in logic anyway (and i'd assume on most other recording/arranging packages), you can 'humanise' the midi notes, and up/down the tempo during the song anyway - and still keep it editable for your proper arranging and mixing afterwards.

so yeah - obviously still not the same feel as a real drum track, but when it comes to jamming something at home and wanting to chop it up into some sort of proper song afterwards, definitely the way to go.

(otherwise, become a brilliant musician and get everything spot on on the first take or two...)

 

[kings lead hat]

depends how good a player you are in both senses. If your an amzing band without a click. fine. but if your an amazing player w/ a click then fine too

speeedign up and speeding down is cool. but if its done right which can be hard to do.

 

[the departed]

i personally think, from a drummers perspective, that its good to rehearse(and i mean rehearse not writing sessions) using a click. obviously some songs will have a natural groove but others need to be reigned in. and its more often that i find that we're playing a song too fast and playing along to a slower click helps to settle us in.
but ian is right, it can kill a groove. i played with a band once who insisted on playing to clicks. wrecked my buzz totally. i also often find that there were times when we'd play and id secretly have the click on in my ears and then theyd go, 'ah you were all over the place' and id go HA YOURE WRONG!!
they even talked about playing gigs with a click. WRECK THE BUZZ. wasnt due to my drumming..just a weird idea that being ultra metronomic meant a better band.

 

[pad]

i use click tracks all the time when i'm recording. but that's because i'm doing everything on my own and i'm ultra-sloppy and not particularly technical when it comes to keys and the like. i get the whole thing about it making it a bit dead, but i think that depends hugely on what you're doing. what kind of style of music and what not.