Tips for separating instruments in a mix? (1 Viewer)

[Jimmy Magee]

My specific problem is that I have a vocal and keyboard part that are getting in each other's way. However I would be just generally interested in the various ways of separating instruments in a mix, apart from spatial separation, which is I think a bit of a cop-out as it only really works on headphones...I gather that EQ'ing them differently can do the trick, but it hasn't worked for me in this case anyway...it's quite possible that the parts are just doomed to get in each others' way, but I'd like to be sure before I go re-writing stuff....

 

[Pantone247]

things I would do

1. don't underestimate panning, even just a few degrees off centre either direction for each track can help.

2. Reverb, soften one instrument with some reverb setting it back wards into the mix, the dry instrument (the voice in this case) should sound a lot more up front. I likes my reverb lots, but if your not into it, its still worth trying if even on a very small scale.

3. EQ, but rather then trying to boast the vocal with EQ and messing with it sound, try and cut the piano.. like 'cut' a 'hole' for the vocals to 'fit' into... try find the main freq your vocals are in and make wee cuts around there on the Piano track... this I find tricky and I generally get bored... which leads too....

4. Flip all the tracks into reverse, pile on the VST jobbies dose it all in heavy reverb and stereo delays and trems and proclaim it a drone rock masterpiece....

hope this is some help

here was I talking to you at the 'disco' in the TBMC a while ago??

 

[Jimmy Magee]

Nice 'en, cheers bud. Yup, you was, why, was you drunk or something? I mean, I was locked, but I still remember talking to you. Not the content though.

 

[egg_]

What Pantone said.
Panning can help even when you're not using headphones ... won't work in mono though, so if anyone's listening on a little transistor radio thing (or a telly) you're jiggered.
I'd go for EQ first. It's not just a question of EQing things differently, it's more like 'cutting a hole' for the vocals like himself above says. Try and hear where the vocals and keyboards are stepping on each others' toes - not specifically frequencies but more like 'bass', 'low-mid', 'high-mid' etc to give yourself some idea of what you need to do. If you have a sweepable mid on your machine leave the vocal un-EQed, put the sweepable mid on the keyboard on max boost with a fairly broad Q and gradually sweep from low to high freqs. Try and make out where the keyboard interferes with the vocal most, and then make a cut here. Maybe repeat the process if you're still not happy
A cut in the keyboard is likely to give you better results than boosting the vocal, but you can try both. It can be a laborious process but you should find that a simple cut/boost in one or two frequencies will help a lot. If you're getting frustrated or making loads of cuts and boosts in both parts it might be a good idea to start over. Oh and be aware that the idea is not to get either the keyboard or vocal to sound good alone, but to get them to sound good together (it's often not possible to do both)

 

[Pantone247]

Originally posted by egg_

I'd go for EQ first. It's not just a question of EQing things differently, it's more like 'cutting a hole' for the vocals like himself above says.

I only know that cause you told me


yeah Mikey I was a bit arse about elbow at the Disco.. I only remebered I was talking to you while I was typing that. Such a deadly indie disco...

 

[Jimmy Magee]

Indeed 'tis. Anyway, danke to you both...

 

[Beanstalk]

Never did this but it could work...

Make a copy of your piano recording, and place in mix.

Pan both pianos to opposite sides.

Use your EQ to turn down the high end of the left hand piano.
Use your EQ to turn down the low end of the right hand piano.

Now your piano sounds wide and leaves room for your vocal in the middle.

Dunno...might work.



Of course don't go mad with the panning or you'll end up with a 100 foot wide piano, that would give Phil Coulter a horn.

 

[Jimmy Magee]

That'll obviously work better on headphones, but d'ya reckon it'll come out on speakers or whatever? I s'pose it's worth a lash anyway...cheers.

 

[Beanstalk]

Well depends how many speakers you have really. Two speakers should give you roughly the same mix as on headphones.

If its played through one speaker (mono) the panned parts may sound a little quieter, therefore making the vocal seem louder, but go easy on the panning and you'll be grand.


I wouldn't worry about the whole mono restriction thing...give it a few more years and we'll all be mixing in Surround Sound...woo hoo!

 

[dudley]

i've done a few 5.1 mixes in me time

mad buzz

 

[Beanstalk]

Originally posted by dudley
i've done a few 5.1 mixes in me time

mad buzz

If I was let loose on equipment with 5.1, I reckon I'd spend all day making stuff revolve.

Guitars = clockwise
Vocals = counterclockwise


I'm getting a headache even imagining it.
!bog

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by Beanstalk
I wouldn't worry about the whole mono restriction thing...

I would. Lots of people still have mono TVs, also lots of nightclub sound systems are in mono

 

[Beanstalk]

Originally posted by egg_
I would. Lots of people still have mono TVs, also lots of nightclub sound systems are in mono

Thats a good point Egg...I did say I wouldn't worry about the mono restriction to panning, but I would generally listen to my mixes in mono before finalising them too.

So I suppose that should read...don't worry about mono, but don't ignore it either.

 

[Jimmy Magee]

As we're on the subject of mono, do mono systems mix the left and right channels, or just play one of them? I would presume the former, but just to be sure...I mean, if it's the latter, the Beatles must be fairly fucked

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by michaelknight
I would presume the former, but just to be sure...

.... you're correct!

 

[Pantone247]

Originally posted by Alex
.... you're correct!

does this not cause phasing issues

 

[Jimmy Magee]

That's a good point...that could happen especially if you've tried to create pretend stereo out of a mono instrument by delaying one channel slightly, I'd wager...

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by Pantone247
does this not cause phasing issues

It does.
That's why you should ALWAYS check your mixes in mono, if you don't you may even get instruments completely disappearing

Lately I've been inclined to mix in mono, just with one speaker, and only when I'm happy with that go to stereo and adjust the panning