Pro-Choice Workshop (1 Viewer)

[Super Dexta]

i'd imagine lots of them happen before the woman is even aware she's pregnant. nature's a bitch.
that's a conservative estimate as well, some sources say it could be 50%. either way, that's lots of unviable foetueseseses right there..

 

[the strange guy]

That may help to explain many of the vehemently anti-choice campaigners. They were foetuses once earmarked for miscarriage by Mother Nature and were somehow overlooked.

The Earth's population is expanding exponentially. Unless this birthrate slows, we're going to need more food and energy sources than we have. Abortion is only one part of the answer. We need more kicks in the balls and more ugly people.

 

[Janer]

........Well except for janer who is only being provocative anyway.

No.

 

[nooleen]

Not at all. Your'e putting words in my mouth here. I'm not comparing anything to anything else.

except abortion to infanticide, that is.

 

[nooleen]

Just out of interest... what does pro-choice direct-action entail? DIY abortions or handing out clinic information to random women?

i've finally found a comic response i consider too offensive to utter. there's a turn-up for the books.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

except abortion to infanticide, that is.

Show me where I did that!

I understand that the argument might be a little nuanced for you but read it again slowly and cerefully - you are allowed move you lips if you want.

 

[BC]

i personally think that the fact abortion is still illegal in this country is fucking ridiculous, and primarilly due to the influence of a group of power-hungry men who have for many hundreds of years oppressed millions through fear and have been consistantly guilty of extreme misogyny and homophobia, not to mention the fact that they invested themselves with a self-proclaimed "divine" arrogance letting them stand around in frocks wittering on about things they have absolutely no knowledge of, while condoning paedophilia (among many other crimes). well anyway.

men are entitled to an opinion, and the expression of this, but forcing people to agree that something is "right" or "wrong" for a woman to do with her own body is so distasteful and objectionable it borders on complete obscenity.

if i would imagine if i was a woman, i would at least like to have the choice. as a man, i do not believe i am entitled to impose as fact sweeping, simplicitic and willfully ignorant judgements on what is a matter of a woman's choice.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

i personally think that the fact abortion is still illegal in this country is fucking ridiculous, and primarilly due to the influence of a group of power-hungry men who have for many hundreds of years oppressed millions through fear and have been consistantly guilty of extreme misogyny and homophobia, not to mention the fact that they invested themselves with a self-proclaimed "divine" arrogance letting them stand around in frocks wittering on about things they have absolutely no knowledge of, while condoning paedophilia (among many other crimes). well anyway.

men are entitled to an opinion, and the expression of this, but forcing people to agree that something is "right" or "wrong" for a woman to do with her own body is so distasteful and objectionable it borders on complete obscenity.

if i would imagine if i was a woman, i would at least like to have the choice. as a man, i do not believe i am entitled to impose as fact sweeping, simplicitic and willfully ignorant judgements on what is a matter of a woman's choice.

You can make lots of arguments in favour of abortion but personally I find those above (which have appeard in one form or other through the thread) to be the weakest.

Firstly regardless of what you think the foetus is - little blob of unconcious nothing or a human - it is not the "womans body" it is speperate and genetically different. Whether you think it is human enough to regard protection or not, to say it is someone elses body it is the kind of wishful thinking many pro choice arguments are based on.

If you can't say - yes this is a human life but under the circumstances I feel the mother has the right to choose to end it - then you are not pro choice you are pro luddite! And unless you adress this reality in your argument you are just spouting sophmoric nonsense - like many of the later posts on this thread.

 

[broken arm]

t is not the "womans body" it is speperate and genetically different.

this discussion doesn't come up enough.

 

[nooleen]

Show me where I did that!

I understand that the argument might be a little nuanced for you but read it again slowly and cerefully - you are allowed move you lips if you want.

"if poverty, health, abuse, and other social problems were sufficient justification for an abortion why are they not sufficient justification for infanticide?"
duh.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

"if poverty, health, abuse, and other social problems were sufficient justification for an abortion why are they not sufficient justification for infanticide?"
duh.

Read it again slowly dipshit

 

[nooleen]

Firstly regardless of what you think the foetus is - little blob of unconcious nothing or a human - it is not the "womans body" it is speperate and genetically different. Whether you think it is human enough to regard protection or not, to say it is someone elses body it is the kind of wishful thinking many pro choice arguments are based on.

if it's so independent where's the problem in taking it out of its host body (aka mother) and letting it fend for itself? no-one said a foetus is a woman's body (?!), it's the woman's body that has to bear the foetus.
again: duh.

 

[nooleen]

Read it again slowly dipshit

if you're not comparing the two, then why should justification for one be justification for the other?

 

[nooleen]

PS: DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

if it's so independent where's the problem in taking it out of its host body (aka mother) and letting it fend for itself? no-one said a foetus is a woman's body (?!), it's the woman's body that has to bear the foetus.
again: duh.

The fact that a fetus is dependant on the mother and can't survive independently isn't an argument one way or another. A newborn baby is completely dependant on outside help too and wouldnt survive without it.

If you justification that it's the womans choice becuse it's the woman body is valid it should hold as a justification in other circumstances. It doesn't. For example what about the situation (probably only an urban legend but it would serve as a useful case) where a mother elects for ceserian for cosmetic reason. Is that distasteful or is it her body to do with as she pleases. If such a procedure were known to pose a risk to the newborn would the same "It's my body mind your own business" logic hold.

That is the argument I was making earlier which seems to be completely lost on you. I am not proposing any equivalence between the two acts. There is none. However a moral justicication which cannot be applied to any other facet of life is probabally erroneous to begin with.

 

[spuded]

where a mother elects for ceserian for cosmetic reason. Is that distasteful or is it her body to do with as she pleases. If such a procedure were known to pose a risk to the newborn would the same "It's my body mind your own business" logic hold.

yes the same logic would hold, maybe you just think women are too dopey to make these decisions for themselves?

 

[nooleen]

If you justification that it's the womans choice becuse it's the woman body is valid it should hold as a justification in other circumstances. It doesn't. For example what about the situation (probably only an urban legend but it would serve as a useful case) where a mother elects for ceserian for cosmetic reason. Is that distasteful or is it her body to do with as she pleases. If such a procedure were known to pose a risk to the newborn would the same "It's my body mind your own business" logic hold.

That is the argument I was making earlier which seems to be completely lost on you. I am not proposing any equivalence between the two acts. There is none. However a moral justicication which cannot be applied to any other facet of life is probabally erroneous to begin with.

no, the argument you made earlier was that abortion is akin to infanticide. now you're trying to compare it to cosmetic surgery. i can't believe it took you an hour to construct that response, you could have taken a few minutes extra to go through it for typos so you don't look like quite such a moron.

 

[broken arm]

yes the same logic would hold, maybe you just think women are too dopey to make these decisions for themselves?

what if the woman was a mentalist? like tracey emin.

 

[nooleen]

what if the woman was a mentalist? like tracey emin.

she's more of a dickhead than a mentalist i'd say.

 

[Corm]

Moron Nailer, you're a tit. Give up the ghost, your logic is getting more regressive all the time & you're barely treading water.

I don't think abortion should simply be a contraceptive option. Close friends & family members of mine were adopted and perhaps would have been aborted under other circumstances...although this is upsetting and provides a lot of food for thought, well that's just fucking life. I found it extremely upsetting when a girlfriend had an abortion, but not as upsetting as it would have been to be a father, and not half as upsetting as it would be for the child who gets to have me for their father. Most women who opt for an abortion do so as the lesser of two evils and find it extremely harrowing.

If we lived in a just world then it would be different, but what hope do most of these women have for a happy, healthy productive life if they go through with a birth that they can't handle? Until there's equality in terms of social placing, race, gender, etc then it's an absolute joke to talk about the value of the life of an unborn child in such terms.

Pro-lifers are just another bunch of authoritarian dickheads hiding behind more excuses to tell people what to do. Fuck off.