Miscellaneous Articles You Should Read (2 Viewers)

[nooleen]

In an organisation with 20,000+ employees?

6 out of a couple of hundred presenters..as a few examples

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

6 out of a couple of hundred presenters..as a few examples

2-3%? As evidence of a wider practice?

This guy has written a long and thoroughly researched piece with 32 footnotes, and could find 6 examples in hundreds of positions. You'd have to think if he found more examples he'd have referenced them.
It doesn't, for me, make the case of a wider practice or a broken organisation.

 

[nooleen]

your question was why is nepotism bad, and should we ban it--not anything about a wider practice or a broken organisation

 

[Lili Marlene]

When he says "if not outright nepotism" his meaning is "it's basically nepotism". It's why he uses the word nepotism. He wants you to regard it as such.
His meaning is certainly not "A family introduction is not nepotism.". It is essentially the opposite of that.

if not outright nepotism, certainly a family introduction seems to advance careers,

It is essentially a claim that a family introduction seems to advance careers, which suggests nepotism.

This nit-picking detail matters because your original question:

Do they tie the anecdotal examples of nepotism to concrete examples of how it fails the Corporation?

is asking for some kind of technical proof of a suggestion, that the corporation is failing.

So, to answer, no they don't have concrete examples of how nepotism fails the corporation because they are not making a concrete claim about nepotism. They are making an anecdotal claim which, along with all the other claims, suggests a certain behavior in the BBC.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

your question was why is nepotism bad, and should we ban it

No
I get that nepotism can be a bad thing.
I questioned what's to be done about it. And suggested a ban on hiring of relatives as being obvious overkill.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

It is essentially a claim that a family introduction seems to advance careers, which suggests nepotism.

It matters because your original question:

Do they tie the anecdotal examples of nepotism to concrete examples of how it fails the Corporation?

is asking for some kind of technical proof of a suggestion, which is not required.

So, to answer, no they don't have concrete examples of how nepotism fails the corporation because they are not making a concrete claim about nepotism. They are making an anecdotal claim which, along with all the other claims, suggests a certain behavior in the BBC.

Ok, well then you'll be happy to know that at no point does this article claim that nepotism is widely practiced in the BBC.

These things seem to contradict each other.

He's either claiming it or he's not (he is)

 

[Lili Marlene]

These things seem to contradict each other.

He's either claiming it or he's not (he is)

Yeah, "anecdotal claim" was a bad use of phrase on my side.

The claim is that the BBC is broken. The evidence is mainly anecdotal and behavioural.

You were looking for some kind of hard evidence or "concrete examples" (I dunno, a police report or something?) of nepotism. This isn't going to happen because the article is saying it couldn't happen.

 

[nooleen]

No
I get that nepotism can be a bad thing.

oh, cool

cos everything you previously posted gave the opposite impression

phew

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

oh, cool

cos everything you previously posted gave the opposite impression

phew

I just don't think that it's the same as hiring of relatives, which is often a good thing

No one else seems to have that impression, or make that distinction

 

[Lili Marlene]

I just don't think that it's the same as hiring of relatives, which is often a good thing

No one else seems to have that impression, or make that distinction

I guess the issue here is that it's a publicly-owned organization, not a family owned one. No?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

I guess the issue here is that it's a publicly-owned organization, not a family owned one. No?

If someone grows up in a family of professionals that work in an organisation, and is exposed to the culture of that organisation and the day-to-day requirements of that profession, and have a someone within the organisation to act as a mentor, then I think that is a whole pile of positives. All other things being equal, the issue of a good fit is rendered null.

I'm thinking mainly in the private sector. The example in my head is architecture.

But i'd have to think that if you're hiring key grips for your TV show and someone is the daughter of key grips and has been yapping and reading about key gripping since she was young, and her Dad is around to be a key grip mentor, then I think you grab that hire. If all you're doing is hiring people's daughters and sons for every position though, then you've got an obvious problem.

I have no idea what a key grip is.

 

[nooleen]

and if someone's been educated at eton and oxbridge, and already has all the necessary contacts for a political career, what harm in that

it saves training if anything

 

[pete]

If someone grows up in a family of professionals that work in an organisation, and is exposed to the culture of that organisation and the day-to-day requirements of that profession, and have a someone within the organisation to act as a mentor, then I think that is a whole pile of positives. All other things being equal, the issue of a good fit is rendered null.

I'm thinking mainly in the private sector. The example in my head is architecture.

But i'd have to think that if you're hiring key grips for your TV show and someone is the daughter of key grips and has been yapping and reading about key gripping since she was young, and her Dad is around to be a key grip mentor, then I think you grab that hire. If all you're doing is hiring people's daughters and sons for every position though, then you've got an obvious problem.

I have no idea what a key grip is.

Theres a "Best boy for the job" joke in there somewhere.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Revealed: FG TDs appoint relatives as their Dáil assistants - Independent.ie

Bad nepotism.

 

[nooleen]

eh, no, they both stated pretty clearly that their dad and sister were actually the best qualified for the respective jobs

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

John Bailey has a decent history in serving the humble citizens of DLR. Quite friendly with developers too bless him.
According to the good people over on Politics.ie O'Connell's sister is in a relationship with the political editor of the Journal.ie so don't expect to see any negative coverage over there.

 

[nooleen]

i find all this corruption very hard to believe

are you sure they weren't just the best-qualified of all possible candidates?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

i find all this corruption very hard to believe

are you sure they weren't just the best-qualified of all possible candidates?

I would give politicians some leeway - you need someone you can trust absolutely and family members do fit that bill. But still, parties have a large membership, I'm sure there's somebody within those ranks that would fulfill the criteria without the suspicious optics. O'Connell seems to be worse in this regard given that she went through an interview process and then decided her sister was best, I mean who did she think was going to buy that?
Mick Wallace did something similar a year or two back, I wonder if his eventual employee was 'connected'.

 

[nooleen]

I would give politicians some leeway

i wouldn't

amirite lol

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I know some of them and they're.... Reasonably sound.