mcd presents capdown (1 Viewer)

[nooleen]

Originally posted by spuded
mm i have to agree with chunky d there, i dont mena to sound like a cunt but there seems to be this buzz in ireland where evryone seems to go insane about a few bands for a few months then its something newer, and something newer etc etc.

that's because when a band comes along and they're really doing something original and cool, obviously people are gonna like them. then a thousand shitty copycat bands will spring up and flood every support slot with their bullshit, unsurprisingly it doesn't take too long for people to get sick and fucking tired of hearing the same watered-down badly-done unoriginal rehashed shit. so if a new band who've come up with a new style of music and made it their own then come along, we're back to the start of the cycle - obviously people are gonna like them.
it's not quantum physics.
and rob.......you seem to dismiss it as a 'trend' every time more than one person has musical tastes different to yours.

 

[nooleen]

PS
it's not like people throw away all their records of 'old' bands, you don't stop liking all your old records just because you get a couple of new ones. are we supposed to put a freeze on our record collections to avoid being accused of following trends just for getting into some new music every once in a while???

 

[Death Monkey]

Fig 4.0 - will probably be back in a few months, think they're doing a split with Stand at the minute.
Joe Ninety will back, bringing Leif Ericsson and Blocko. It will rock. Think the Dublin date will be the 27th May, the Belfast one is 29th May.

 

[Chunky D]

Originally posted by nooly
and rob.......you seem to dismiss it as a 'trend' every time more than one person has musical tastes different to yours.

every time? i do'nt remember ever doing that. I said theres a trend towards hardcore because there currently is one, i did not mean anything dismissive about it. Anyway i like hardcore so if i was to dismiss it as a trend i would be just following the trend.

 

[nooleen]

ehhhhh...........hmmmmmm.........i must be confusing you with the other chunky d from da blanch who dismissed hardcore as 'pseudo-metal shit' last weekend
sorry . . .

 

[Chunky D]

are you sure i did'nt call it low grade metal? i can't imagine myself saying pseudo anything, that's more of a weeler thing to say .......

 

[spuded]

nooly the point i was tryin to make is that i have noticed a trend amongst people in "da scene" (i hate that) to totally dismiss bands they once loved, to be honest i see very few bands doin anyhting that is truly original and innovative and most bands around now are just slight deviations of what NAUSEA ,AMEBIX, RITES OF SPRING, HUSKER DU, CONFLICT (i thnk ive covered afair few punk sub-genres there) were doing years ago, im not saying that that is necessarily a bad thing, there are some really rawkin bands out there but to call them original would be a lie and they'ed tell you that themselves, there is only a certain point to which guitar orientated music can be taken so things are never goin to deviate that much.

im not sayin people should freeze their record collections anyone who knows me knows how much i love hearing new sounds and buying records but that is no reason why people should start to slag of bands they once liked, because in my mind if you really were into a band at one stage in ur life, you always will have a soft spot for em, sure i still love billy idol, bon jovi and aerosmith and i heard him first when i was 5, lets just say the amount of times i've had the piss ripped out of me for liking pop-punk bands by people who i'm damn sure gotta into punk rock by that very route, and visa versa i.e. people who hated death metal with a passion now suddenly love it.

p.s. JENIGER rawwkkk

 

[nooleen]

well hello spudso, i didn't know they had internet in kildare, then again coming from the common i have little to scoff at
would like to stay for a chat but gonna go to bed instead

PS rob, ah yes low-grade metal, that's the one.

PPS homomilitia double raaaaaaaawwwwwwkk

 

[Death Monkey]

There no such thing as a truely original thought.
At least that what my lecturer tells me.
I like low grade metal.
I like some pop.

 

[Willie Willions]

" There no such thing as a truely original thought.
At least that what my lecturer tells me."

Very true, that's why all my essays are plagarised to fuck, if I ever actually DO any essays. Which I usually don't...

 

[Gogs]

Originally posted by Death Monkey
Joe Ninety will back, bringing Leif Ericsson and Blocko. It will rock. Think the Dublin date will be the 27th May, the Belfast one is 29th May.

Shame it clashes with the Jetplane Landing gig.

 

[Corm]

Alright, deep breath...

I think this is pretty fucked up. In response to John, I see what you're saying but I don't agree that "there's only so far you can take DIY". It's not something that can be picked up or cast aside depending on convenience. You're either DIY, or not. There's no two ways, and once you've compromised youself it's nigh-on impossible to get back to where you were previous to this.

To play in a band called Capitalist Downfall (CapDown) and to book your gigs with MCD is not DIY, it's not punk and it's certainly not progressive towards bringing about a capitalist downfall. I think it's pretty obvious that if you're a punk or you're in a punk band you're going to find out what the fuckin story is BEFORE you go and do something like this.

The reason why there isn't even an inkling of a "capitalist downfall" happening (quit the opposite) is because of people who are supposedly on our side's complicity with this kind of thing. Rimbaud, you're saying:

"give em a break! At least they`re going to play here anyway. "SPAS" - Your calling them "spas" over this shite!?

I can't accept that at all. So where do you draw the line? What, is the message to be DIY until something better comes along? You're anti-capitalist until you make some money, a punk until you inherit granny's trust fund at 21, vegan at weekends?

What bands like Capdown who find themselves in a position whereby they possess such power (both economically and from a setting-an-example point of view) should be doing is working to establish large, maintainable DIY networks. Working outside of the system. Instead, they've gotten scared, and gone for the bank-account option. And they're sound fucking guys, no different to you or me, the difference being that they're a year or two older, got the breaks and happen to write good music together. As mentioned, I booked their first tour for them here a few years ago, Nerdlinger played both their tours with them and we got to know them pretty well. At the end of the last tour we got paid fuck-all by Fred Zeppelins, and when they found out they insisted on giving us a sizeable portion of their money. However, when myself and Eoin got into a conversation with their bass player, Boob, about their label prospects and what would happen if a big offer came along or whatever, he got real cagey and uncomfortable and we knew something was up. Then a few months later we hear about them doing a split CD single with Hundred Reasons put out by Sony. But it's not that simple. Their singer Jake's girlfriend was pregnant the last time they came over, he has a kid by now. That's serious fucking business. Whereas I can get in the back of a transit van and spend a month playing drunken gigs all over Europe, fucked up on drugs, being paid peanuts and whatever else goes with it, when you have kids, you'd fucking better want and need to be taking care of them. Issues like this aren't so simple in the black-and-white insular world of DIY punk-rock.

So what do you do?

Well, the problem isn't just with the bands. The responsability lies with you and me. The first Capdown tour I put a lot into. One of the gigs was booked for Waterford with a "promoter" who, although their heart was in the right place, transpired over a number of occasions to be flaky as fuck. It was a Saturday afternoon and pretty much no-one turned up. There were fuck-ups with the money and Capdown weren't paid a penny. Maybe Jamie can shed more light on this since his band played at the gig? Anyway,where does that leave Capdown, where does that leave me? They're down a substantial amount of money (the difference between having/not having food and petrol for a day or two) and I'm left with the apparance of someone unreliable (and just for the record they in turn flaked out on me when they & Five Knuckle were booked to headline the Roscommon punk festival and pulled out with a flimsy "broken van" excuse).

So what's the fucking lesson to be learned from this?

If we want our bands that become more popular to stay DIY, well we have to take responsability and work hard at it too. It's easy to snipe from the sidelines. It's not so easy to get stuck in and try to face up to the likes of MCD and the other capitalist swine. Ask Niall McGuirk. BUT it is possible. Again, ask Niall about the Fugazi gig in the SFX. Despite much opposition from the likes of MCD, they pulled it off cheap and it worked out great -fair fucking fucks. Imagine if we all got together to work towards doing that? Then would we have Propagandhi & Capdown playing with MCD, Hot Water Music with Ultramack (no offense to Ultramack, they're independent and do good shit BUT they're not punks, they're dance-music promoters and don't know what the story is with punk bands like we do)? No, because there would be other reliable avenues available. When the shit with Propagandhi went down, myself, Ror and some others wrote to them and tried to offer analternative by putting the gig on ourselves. We were told it was too late, it wasn't possible and that they weren't playing with MCD, they were doing it with an other company, the name of which escapes me now. It later transpired that MCD were lying and had booked the gig under a different name (a common ploy) which was the name they gave Propagandhi's booking agent. Propagandhi had been assured they were playing through independent punk promoters and didn't even find out until I gave them one of the flyers I made for the show explaining MCD's cunt-acting.

So what can we do? When you get to the size of a band like Propagandhi, Capdown and whoever else, you HAVE to have a manager and booking agent. It's just not possible to do everything when that many people want to see you play, when you're playing that many gigs and constantly on the road, etc. So what do you do? Many bands end up making compromises. Others, like NoMeansNo or Fugazi, don't, so far as they can. But there's still slip ups. And the only way this can be avoided is if people like you and me get together to form our own DIY punk booking agents and companies and develop our own networks. Keep that in mind -while Capdown & Propagandhi & whoever else should totally be making sure that the people they employ to look after their affairs are sorting shit out properly and not falling prey to the likes of MCD, much of the responsability lies with US aswell.

And the only thing we can do about it now that we've let it go this far, is that when they play here to make sure Capdown know the story and work to develop our own avenues so that THIS STOPS HAPPENING. Personally I've dropped out of doing gigs after years of disapointments (the punk festival, the Endstand gig, Catharsis, Crash, Small Brown Bike, etc) and subsequent blame, and also because of having to handle shit all on my own with little or no willing & reliable help from others, culminating in getting a lot of shit over the disastrous 22 gig, after which everyone blamed and talked shit about me, rather than actually inquiring about or even considring the possability of the intense personal problems I was having in the months preceding and following it. That said, I am getting back into putting on gigs now, but I'll be doing it differently because of what I've learnt.

Stop whining and start working to acheive what you believe in. If you think it's okay to simply sit at the sidelines and shoot everyone else down, then you better havea good answer when asked "what the fuck have you done"?

Try try try.

 

[oscardagrouch]

As it's been brought up, I want to clear up some facts about that Waterford gig.

1)The promoter (Shelly) was indeed flaky as fuck.Is that my responsibility Corm?I think not.So how the hell am I gonna shed some light on it for you?Why not ask Ian, he was there.

2)It was a Sunday afternoon, Capdown were late, very few people were there. Sir Killalot played, Sir killalot were stared at like I'd just fucked everyone in the pub's mother, we left and drove back to Dublin to play that night. What happened between the band and the promoter, I don't know.

3)The money situation?again, I know nothing, we didn't get a penny.

I'm not sure but if I didn't know better I'd think Corm was trying to point a finger my way. Incidentally, I think you'll find we didn't all talk shit behind your back.Some of us did it to your face. I know I did.More than can be said for some people eh?

However, I am hungover,off my cake on painkillers, sleep deprived and suffering from a throat infection, so I could be presuming your having a go at me when you're not in which case, ignore me.


Incidentally, on a totally pissed off note, I LOVE the fact that people are debating the whole ethics of making a living off punk, and seeing both sides of the argument..and then STILL give me grief in the shop about how , you know, we actually have the cheek to charge more than a fiver for records.

I'm off to bed now.

 

[Chunky D]

Ultramack

Originally posted by Corm


Then would we have Propagandhi & Capdown playing with MCD, Hot Water Music with Ultramack (no offense to Ultramack, they're independent and do good shit BUT they're not punks, they're dance-music promoters and don't know what the story is with punk bands like we do)?

what does it matter what music they do if they do things independantly and cheaply?

 

[pete]

For what it's worth, timmo from ultramack was playing at 'punk' gigs while most of you lot were in nappies.

so nerrrr

 

[Corm]

Christ, try and say something constructive and somehow you offend everyone.

1) Jamie, why would I bother? You were there, I wasn't, you personally know the promoter, I don't, and if you think I'd accuse you of taking the money from a gig that's meant to go to a band...well you know I've got a higher opinion of you than that.

2) "I LOVE the fact that people are debating the whole ethics of making a living off punk, and seeing both sides of the argument..and then STILL give me grief in the shop about how , you know, we actually have the cheek to charge more than a fiver for records"

Ah get out of it. So now I can't ask why particular records are more expensive than I'd expect them to be without being called a hypocrite for "debating the whole ethics of making a living off punk"? You know that I think the Record Shop is fucking great, that I'm constantly telling people who aren't familiar with it about it and that I frequently spend more money there than I can afford...so don't bite my head off if I reserve the right to ask about prices, thank you very much. In fact, since you mention it, you'll remember that more than once I expressed surprise at the LOW cost of certain records? Probably not.

3) "what does it matter what music they do if they do things independantly and cheaply?"

What? Go tell that to Ian Stuart. The point is that you can still be cheap and independent but that's not always the full story -look at yer man from Irish Unsigned. His heart's in the right place but he doesn't come from the same position and hence doesn't seem to "get" the point of being DIY and independent in a punk context -e.g., as something more than just a stepping stone.

4) "For what it's worth, timmo from ultramack was playing at 'punk' gigs while most of you lot were in nappies."

For what it's worth, so what?

 

[Chunky D]

Originally posted by Corm




What? Go tell that to Ian Stuart. The point is that you can still be cheap and independent but that's not always the full story -look at yer man from Irish Unsigned. His heart's in the right place but he doesn't come from the same position and hence doesn't seem to "get" the point of being DIY and independent in a punk context -e.g., as something more than just a stepping stone.

ultramack and irish unsigned are totally different things that cannot be compared.

 

[oscardagrouch]

apologies and all that

sorry corm, I was indeed being a defensive prick there.Apologies all round.

The bit about the record store wasn't in fact aimed at you personally (and yes I DO in fact remember you being chuffed about some stuff being cheap), and believe me I know I really do value the fact that people keep us afloat by buying stuff..however there are still some kids (the younger ones I might add..and there ARE some kids who post here among them) who are always giving me shit about the prices.And I can now trot out the explanation for the prices in my sleep...apart from the Pink Turds/Oi Polloi records, which not even I can explain the stupid pricing of.

anyway, that's all.Sorry Corm.Are we cool?

 

[Corm]

No problemo, dudemar.
P.S. -smoke bifftys.

 

[mazzyianne]

Originally posted by Rimbaud
Well said Toxic...
I mean, you lot make it sound like their killing little children or something - give em a break!
At least they`re going to play here anyway.
"SPAS" - Your calling them "spas" over this shite!?
I hate it when people use that word...

Ok look, It's one thing people dissin Capdown, Ultramack, eachother, whatever, but dissin the word spa just really isn't on.