Making the Case for Sweatshops (1 Viewer)

[Cormcolash]

i've lost interest in this thread now that it's degenerated into reasoned and civilised argument.

Working in Sweatshops is sound.

 

[sarah]

Will somebody please just tell me if I just have to live in fair -trade clothes and vintage stuff? I'm thinking about the Primark sweatshop scandal- and topshop being in the same league-... by not shopping there is one losing some poor person a job? or is shopping there further supporting an industry which exploits vulnerable people?

Thanks!

 

[the strange guy]

People who work in sweatshops don't do it for the craic.
They rely on the wages to survive.
Applying first world ethics and standards to third world problems
aren't always clear cut.
Having said that, I know a lot of people who won't wear Nike or
shop in Pennys but haven't thrown out their iPod or their laptop.

 

[Cormcolash]

Just buy all your clothes in charity shops Sarah, that way you can't go wrong and can buy whatever you want, plus it's cheap.

 

[sarah]

Just buy all your clothes in charity shops Sarah, that way you can't go wrong and can buy whatever you want, plus it's cheap.

Second hand knickers,think about it. !bog

 

[broken arm]

Nike have done more than a lot of companies to clean up their shit - only because they were hit so hard with boycotts and campaigns.

I still won't wear Nike because they look shit.

 

[sarah]

Just buy all your clothes in charity shops Sarah, that way you can't go wrong and can buy whatever you want, plus it's cheap.

p.p.s if you do buy all your clothes in charity shops aren't you supporting the brand indirectly by walking around looking very cool in your vintage nike/ adidas/ whatever brand you avoided the first time round.

p.s. I love thrift stores etc and have found some of my favourite clothes in various ones around city.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Lots of these sweatshops are set up in economic zones where are hugely reduced taxes to attract industry in the first place, reducing the positive effect these sweatshops might have on the local economy.

The argument that; "yes sweatshops are good because it allows the standard of living to be raised, and the fact that the sweatshop moves on in a few years to a cheaper country is proof that there has been increase in living standards", could be right in purely economic terms, but morally it's bullshit.

A thing is not good by being marginally better than the alternative.

When it comes to defending any kind of obscene practice this is always th first argument. It's what you study in chapter 1 of PR for Tyrants. Have a quick think back to how many times you have heard the same argument made.....

"I am a kind slave owner, they love to work my fields, if they were freed tommorrow they wouldn't leave here, they have a roof over their heed and food, blah, blah."

 

[broken arm]

A thing is not good by being marginally better than the alternative.

this is a powerful lesson for lots of things.

the point about slavery relates to this - slavery being better than starvation doesn't make slavery good.

or grammar..

 

[maims bond]

Having said that, I know a lot of people who won't wear Nike or
shop in Pennys but haven't thrown out their iPod or their laptop.

I'm troubled by this too. Wouldn't be seen dead sporting a swoosh or 3 stripes, not even if they were 2nd hand, but have no problem bouncing down the street with my white earphones or pulling out my apple emblazoned laptop. It all really comes down to the availability of alternatives. There are myriad alternatives to sweatshop produced shoes but most electronics, high-end stuff anyway, is produced under acceptable working conditions. Ergo, no need for fairtrade ipods.

First year moral philosophy was one of the most interesting things i've ever studied. I hear there's loads of work in it these days.

 

[Lili Marlene]

how many times your current wage would you need to be paid to work in sweatshop conditions?

I'd say i'd do it for 10 times my current wages.

for a while anyway.

maybe.

probably not

 

[broken arm]

but most electronics, high-end stuff anyway, is produced under acceptable working conditions. Ergo, no need for fairtrade ipods.

This isn't really true. The full life cycle impacts (social and environmental) of the production of electronic products is far from acceptable.

 

[Kid Lovebeach]

''I got an idea for sweatshops. Air Conditioning!'' - Mitch Hedberg

 

[maims bond]

This isn't really true. The full life cycle impacts (social and environmental) of the production of electronic products is far from acceptable.

Fair point. I was just referring to the fact that they're not made in sweatshops. Can I offset the carbon footprint involved in producing my ipod against the fact that i cycle to work?

 

[the strange guy]

There's loads of stuff online about the iPod sweatshops. Laptops
and desktop computers have many, many components sourced from
many different places for as cheaply as possible. Some of these are
likely to have been made in dodgy factories. Again, there's plenty of
resources online that will make you feel bad.

 

[sarah]

Here's a very short survey that's kinda on the topic of ethical consumerism, someone is doing it for a final year project so I guess you'd be helping her by filling it out. (you get entered into a draw for 60 europe shopping voucher)

anyway it's short and relevant

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for participants for my Final Year Project. It's a web-based study on social attitudes and should only take 5-10 minutes. One research credit will be provided, and you can enter your email address into a draw to win a €60 voucher for a shop of your choice.

Here is the link to the study:
http://www.surveygizmo.com /s/96305/cloco
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/96305/cloco

 

[Cormcolash]

I actually walk around in the nip all the time and don't use any computers or electronics at all. I'm only posting here through ESP. It works kind of similar to using an ISP.
Anyway, this way I don't feel bad about anything. In fact I walk around with my head held high and a self-righteous smirk on my face. It gets a bit cold sometimes, but I get lots of girls too.

 

[broken arm]

Laptops
and desktop computers have many, many components sourced from
many different places for as cheaply as possible.

here is a fairly simple product - an electronic toothbrush.

38 components produced and sourced from 11 different countries and 5 different time zones. When the components have been all brought to the final assembly point for manufacture and distribution the components have traveled a full 27,880 kilometers, two thirds of the Earth's circumference.

that's before it even hits the shops and people fret about whether to put it into a plastic bag or not.....

 

[Bold Lump]

here is a fairly simple product - an electronic toothbrush.

38 components produced and sourced from 11 different countries and 5 different time zones. When the components have been all brought to the final assembly point for manufacture and distribution the components have traveled a full 27,880 kilometers, two thirds of the Earth's circumference.

that's before it even hits the shops and people fret about whether to put it into a plastic bag or not.....

Or you could say the circuit boards are sourced from the phillipines (components for which are sourced from other east asian countries), the specialist items and plastics from Europe, and assembled in the US.

Now you can accumalate the travel miles of every single component but the likes of copper coils, nickel cadium cells and most likely the circuit boards, are going to be shipped in the thousands and will be used in far more products than this single item.

 

[Cormcolash]

Guess that makes it alright then.

Following on from this thread, here's one that should interest people here:

http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=70088