Letter to Emily (2 Viewers)

[Deadmanposting]

Could you not just pay to download music thereby supporting artists?

Sake.

I haven't bought a C.D in years either but mainly because they're horrible looking and get lost every time you move gaf. I'd buy stuff off Itunes or Bandcamp before I'd go illeagally downloading. That said I have illeagally downloaded albums which I preciously bought on C.D but said C.D is too badly damaged to add to my Ipod. Which brings up the issue of whether I paid for
A. The C.D or

B. The music contained on the C.D

I feel I paid solely for the music therefore i don't feel too bad about this.

I do feel a bit bad about it, but on a list of things that I need to improve or do better, it's on there but not very high up.

I mean we all steal movies, don't we?

Er, don't we?

 

[washingcattle]

Part of it is that there's so much music out there, that i couldn't pay for everything i download.
Most of what I get on sharing sites is not stuff I would ever pay for. It's just new and I want to hear it.
And if it's back-catalogue stuff, i don't feel any guilt. Like Yoke Ono or John Lydon really need my money?

Again, I'm not saying it's right, just that's where technology has led us.

Yes but the argument is that you are not entitled to hear everything that exists. Like Moose said that sense of entitlement doesn't extend to the artists with regard to actually making the music
i.e

I have ears therefore I deserve to listen to everything for free

or

I make music therefore I deserve to have a free guitar, amp, practice space, infinite recording time in a studio or a free computer with a decent sound card and free recording software etc,

as it is i'd say 99% of all bands run at a loss for most of their existence. The financial weight that they have to carry to make a record will eventually lower the quality of recordings and make the idea of making a record so daunting/financially crippling that bands simply don't bother anymore.

I've said it before and I'll say it again If any other aspect of the music industry or society as a whole were expected to run the same way as bands, people would starve to death.

 

[snakybus]

Here's a thought: Musicians are a bit like gold prospectors, plundering the wild frontiers for musical gold. Some have had great talent and failed, others have a modicum of talent and struck it lucky. Most had very little prospecting talent and gave up and got a job. Of those that stuck with the prospecting, none demanded an income, because it was the goddam wild west and you go and grab what you can. They did, and they got rich. I know the likes of Camper van Beethoven didn't, or Vic Chestnutt didn't. But they kind of arrived late, didn't they? Isn't it the luck of the draw?

So now they're giving out about looters of a different kind. Fair enough, Camper. But you'd a been looting too, if you'd a got the chance.

 

[washingcattle]

There's a possible wider socio-economic aspect to illeagal downloading though that goes beyond the current relationship between the artist and the audience.
For example when I was 15 i worked in a series of shit jobs for shit pay, the only reason I did this was to spend money on albums, cinema and gig tickets and eventually a guitar. Now a psychyatrist would probably say that this builds a connection in the brain between money and experience rather than money and possesions. As a result of this it makes absolute sense for me to now sink money into my band as this is an extention of this mind set now I work an equally shit job to pay for rehersal space etc.

Now that there are no jobs and no need to have one to hear music. I worry that without this connection between the two in adolesence fewer bands will form as fewer youngsters will feel the need to make sacrifice (particularly financial) for there art so to speak. and since Capitalism is not going to collapse any time soon we could be looking at a situation where the possibilty of forming bands may beyond the grasp of a whole generation.


How's that for grim.

 

[Theseus Mock]

I haven't bought a CD in about 5 years. Everything's available for free online if you look hard enough.

I used to have this mentality but got to a stage where I was just not arsed having to root around the internet finding shit. Takes way too much effort. Streaming services and fuss free iTunes mp3 downloads trump pirate scavenging.

 

[Deadmanposting]

There's a possible wider socio-economic aspect to illeagal downloading though that goes beyond the current relationship between the artist and the audience.
For example when I was 15 i worked in a series of shit jobs for shit pay, the only reason I did this was to spend money on albums, cinema and gig tickets and eventually a guitar. Now a psychyatrist would probably say that this builds a connection in the brain between money and experience rather than money and possesions. As a result of this it makes absolute sense for me to now sink money into my band as this is an extention of this mind set now I work an equally shit job to pay for rehersal space etc.

Now that there are no jobs and no need to have one to hear music. I worry that without this connection between the two in adolesence fewer bands will form as fewer youngsters will feel the need to make sacrifice (particularly financial) for there art so to speak. and since Capitalism is not going to collapse any time soon we could be looking at a situation where the possibilty of forming bands may beyond the grasp of a whole generation.


How's that for grim.

Or it becomes the province of the rich.
When the Beatles started, being a rock musician was not something people of means would have their kids do.
Now it's all 'follow your dream' and successful parents will fund their kid's band's project.
Not to mention the children of musicians who have a leg up in the industry to start with.

What it means is that people from poorer backgrounds are less likely to form bands and make music.

This is all off the top of my head, so feel free to poke holes in it.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Streaming services and fuss free iTunes mp3 downloads trump pirate scavenging.

This is what everyone is telling me now. I just haven't made the switch.

i think i read that musicians make almost nothing from these legal streaming services though.

It does make the idea of even having a music collection obsolete when everything's up in the cloud already and available for a tenner a month.

Unfortunately it is not available on the Nokia 6303.

 

[Theseus Mock]

and since Capitalism is not going to collapse any time soon we could be looking at a situation where the possibilty of forming bands may beyond the grasp of a whole generation.


How's that for grim.

Certainly grim but the amount of bands around nowadays certainly calls for some sort of quota management. Maybe it's something the Arts Council could do, each band has to be registered and limits applied to each genre. Dubstep should be banned though.

 

[Theseus Mock]

i think i read that musicians make almost nothing from these legal streaming services though.

It does make the idea of even having a music collection obsolete when everything's up in the cloud already and available for a tenner a month.

Yeah, there has been talk of artists making very little on streaming services but it's something that will have to assessed over a longer period time. I remember reading about artists cuts from Spotify when they only operated in 6 countries, now they're pretty much all over Europe, Australia and most importantly, the US. That should change things a bit.

All physical media is becoming obsolete, music in mp3s, films in netflix, books on kindle/ipads. It's all going digital, good for nomads.

 

[pete]

Certainly grim but the amount of bands around nowadays certainly calls for some sort of quota management. Maybe it's something the Arts Council could do, each band has to be registered and limits applied to each genre. Dubstep should be banned though.

When is the cull?

 

[Deadmanposting]

Yeah, there has been talk of artists making very little on streaming services but it's something that will have to assessed over a longer period time. I remember reading about artists cuts from Spotify when they only operated in 6 countries, now they're pretty much all over Europe, Australia and most importantly, the US. That should change things a bit.

All physical media is becoming obsolete, music in mp3s, films in netflix, books on kindle/ipads. It's all going digital, good for nomads.

Books are something I will always pay for. But I love the Kindle. It's bloody brilliant.
i'll be about 90% downloads pretty soon. bookstores are finished I have to think.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

fewer bands will form

in many contexts,this would be a very ,very good thing.

 

[Anthony]

I ran into so many problems with iTunes. Not being able to send music or copy it over. DRM stuff, that I found it's simpler to just to steal rips.
And most new stuff leaks now anyway, so it's right there available to steal but not to buy.
Once you've had it for a month it seems even stupider to pay for it then.
I'm not proud of it, but surely I can't be alone in these practices.

wow, seems like you're out of options. Those leaked albums aren't going to listen to themselves are they?

 

[Deadmanposting]

wow, seems like you're out of options. Those leaked albums aren't going to listen to themselves are they?

But seriously, I know the thing's available but I won't listen to it because it's not ethical?

I honestly don't have the impulse control.

 

[washingcattle]

in many contexts,this would be a very ,very good thing.

According to whom?

by the way I realised about 20 seconds after I posted this that I'd subcnsciously ripped off the Monrobot episode of Futurama.

 

[washingcattle]

All physical media is becoming obsolete, music in mp3s, films in netflix, books on kindle/ipads. It's all going digital, good for nomads.

Yes, but the experience I'm talking about, i.e Cinema, gigs, theatre (perhaps) suffers because of the inability of the producers to continue financing these by sales.

No one really cares if the C.D or DVD disappears but if cinemas went I'd go fucking nuts

 

[washingcattle]

Or it becomes the province of the rich.
When the Beatles started, being a rock musician was not something people of means would have their kids do.
Now it's all 'follow your dream' and successful parents will fund their kid's band's project.
Not to mention the children of musicians who have a leg up in the industry to start with.

What it means is that people from poorer backgrounds are less likely to form bands and make music.

This is all off the top of my head, so feel free to poke holes in it.

Maybe to some extent but folks don't respect anything they get for free. Just take a look at the way people in this country treat park land and you'll get an idea of what I mean.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Maybe to some extent but folks don't respect anything they get for free. Just take a look at the way people in this country treat park land and you'll get an idea of what I mean.

Yup

Tragedy of the commons

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

the kids will still buy and experience expensive cultural stuff it'll just be clothes, make-up, hairstyles and that kind of thing rather than music. I can't get over how teenage lads in school nowadays want to ponce about in boybands, dancing and smiling, instead of wanting to play guitars or drums and be all angsty.

 

[whelanslive]

Books are something I will always pay for. But I love the Kindle. It's bloody brilliant.
i'll be about 90% downloads pretty soon. bookstores are finished I have to think.

You'll pay for books until getting them for free is more covenient than paying for them if I'm reading your posts correctly.