Let's give some power back to the priests, shall we? (2 Viewers)

[jane]

Oh yeah, I just want to point out once again, though, that it's not so much that you have to apply to the Minsiter for Justice, but that the priest is essentially being given state power, which is something that should worry even those who don't feel this is relevant to them.

 

[Squiggle]

This whole thing scares me a bit too.

I already have one brother married to a Thai (and living in Bangkok) and now my younger brother has announced his plans to do likewise.

As 'Ferang' in Thailand my brothers will never be able to own their own home, or business, and there are many other restrictions on them as well... now it looks as though they might have difficulty coming home with their families if they ever need to get out of Thailand because things worsen there.

 

[Squiggle]

Oh yeah, I just want to point out once again, though, that it's not so much that you have to apply to the Minsiter for Justice, but that the priest is essentially being given state power, which is something that should worry even those who don't feel this is relevant to them.

Well, by allowing priests to 'register' weddings they had already given them a state power, this is just making sure that they perform that duty as diligently as the registry officer would be required to, isn't it?

I had to give minimum three months notice, he was UK citizen so was going to have to fulfill certain residency requirements etc. (We were going to have to have a separate registration) A lot of Catholic priests have been (rightly or wrongly) accused of turning a blind eye to some of that stuff.

 

[Wobbler]

I use to work with a guy who moved to Thailand to marry a Thai girl. Apparently every second person he spoke to asked him whether he was worried that she was just looking for an Irish passport. Obviously there's no such thing as interracial love
Thanks.
I'm starting to get really excited. It's on May 9th so it's starting to creep up on us.

This whole thing scares me a bit too.

I already have one brother married to a Thai (and living in Bangkok) and now my younger brother has announced his plans to do likewise.

As 'Ferang' in Thailand my brothers will never be able to own their own home, or business, and there are many other restrictions on them as well... now it looks as though they might have difficulty coming home with their families if they ever need to get out of Thailand because things worsen there.

Same bloke?

 

[jane]

This whole thing scares me a bit too.

I already have one brother married to a Thai (and living in Bangkok) and now my younger brother has announced his plans to do likewise.

As 'Ferang' in Thailand my brothers will never be able to own their own home, or business, and there are many other restrictions on them as well... now it looks as though they might have difficulty coming home with their families if they ever need to get out of Thailand because things worsen there.

I remember you telling us about this, and it's really scary. I think the thing that's changing is that in these cases, usually one of the couple's country of origin is a little bit less terrifying. Now it seems like there's nowhere that's possible. Like, if we move to the US, we'll have gone through a whole bunch of crap here and then lord knows how bad it will be there. Or if a republican wins, I'm not sure I could even move back because I just don't want to inflict that on my partner. And then if we stay here, what happens if it keeps getting worse? It's bad enough that I have trouble in my field because the way funding is done, I'm not eligible, so everything is twice as hard, but what happens if they find new restrictions to apply? Which they will? Like, the thing last year where they were deporting spouses of EU citizens -- what happens if they just up and deport people?

It's not just that Ireland is going scary, it's that EVERYWHERE is going scary, which means that an international couple doesn't have any safe place to go where they can have rights. Then there's the added thing where when two members of the couple do not have equal rights under the law, that places a rather humungous strain on even the healthiest, most loving relationship.

So you've got your brothers in situations where neither country really 'wants' the couple. I mean, a couple *is* a unit, which means to be suspicious and vicious toward one member means it is aimed at both of them. Because duh, that's the vow you take when you get hitched.

 

[jane]

Well, by allowing priests to 'register' weddings they had already given them a state power, this is just making sure that they perform that duty as diligently as the registry officer would be required to, isn't it?

I had to give minimum three months notice, he was UK citizen so was going to have to fulfill certain residency requirements etc. (We were going to have to have a separate registration) A lot of Catholic priests have been (rightly or wrongly) accused of turning a blind eye to some of that stuff.

Oh yeah, we had to give three months' notice, but the CoI doesn't ask any extra stuff of you, only that one member of the couple is a member of the CoI or an affiliated church, which I am. The new laws, by the way, mean that the priest no longer registers the wedding! We have to do that ourselves, which was a bit of extra paperwork, but it was kind of better in that it symbolised a bit more separation of church and state powers.

Which makes this new law even more insane. For Irish people, the church no longer registers your wedding, or does anything more than stand over you and say a few words. If one member is foreign, it's going to mean that the priest has even MORE power than before. And for register office weddings, I'm not sure what that means -- they are a state body anyway, but they are being given powers above and beyond what stamping forms for the State usually involves.

 

[Squiggle]

Same bloke?

I don't know, did you work with my brother?

It's not just that Ireland is going scary, it's that EVERYWHERE is going scary, which means that an international couple doesn't have any safe place to go where they can have rights.

This is the major problem. My parents are now having to face the possibility that they may never see my brothers again, or their grandchildren.

It was bad enough when married brother and his wife came over three years ago. They came over via Frankfurt and had to spend 12 hours in the departure lounge because the authorities there wouldn't let my sister-in-law go anywhere else.

Then again, my brother-in-law had to resign from the US Navy because the US Government wouldn't allow my sister to return to the US after coming home for Christmas. They were married in the United States and she had a pass for the Navy base. So, although the military considered her a non-threat apparently the little Hitler's operating US emigration in Shannon didn't. That was nearly 4 years ago.

 

[Squiggle]

Oh yeah, we had to give three months' notice, but the CoI doesn't ask any extra stuff of you, only that one member of the couple is a member of the CoI or an affiliated church, which I am. The new laws, by the way, mean that the priest no longer registers the wedding! We have to do that ourselves, which was a bit of extra paperwork, but it was kind of better in that it symbolised a bit more separation of church and state powers.

Which makes this new law even more insane. For Irish people, the church no longer registers your wedding, or does anything more than stand over you and say a few words. If one member is foreign, it's going to mean that the priest has even MORE power than before. And for register office weddings, I'm not sure what that means -- they are a state body anyway, but they are being given powers above and beyond what stamping forms for the State usually involves.

That's always been the way for all churches in Ireland other than the Roman Catholic... having to register separately... but I thought that Catholic priests still had the power to register weddings. Has that changed in recent years? I know that they certainly used to be able to - in that the legal paperwork was part of the Catholic wedding ceremony.

The word 'priest' in Ireland refers almost exclusively to Roman Catholic priests.

 

[Wobbler]

I don't know, did you work with my brother?

I don't know. This guy's name is Ian.

 

[Squiggle]

I don't know. This guy's name is Ian.

Not my brother then

 

[Wobbler]

Not my brother then

Pity

 

[Squiggle]

Pity

Yep, it would have been funny/cool if it was the same guy.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

While you're complaining about BT crone get onto the taxi lads and complain about about 78% of them. The shit they come out with is unbelievable.

 

[jane]

That's always been the way for all churches in Ireland other than the Roman Catholic... having to register separately... but I thought that Catholic priests still had the power to register weddings. Has that changed in recent years? I know that they certainly used to be able to - in that the legal paperwork was part of the Catholic wedding ceremony.

The word 'priest' in Ireland refers almost exclusively to Roman Catholic priests.

Yeah, but I think 'priest' refers to Roman Catholics except actuallly applies to all 'religious solemnisers' because Catholic's always been the default for most people.

Anyway, as of November 5 last year, the legal bit is separate from the religious bit. You still sign a register, but it's just for the church. And whereas the priest used to file your marriage registration form, now the couple does it themselves. I think the Catholic church still has their own set of requirements, but they are nothing to do with the legal thing -- like I think you still have to apply to be 'released' from your local parish. Crazy stuff.

 

[broken arm]

While you're complaining about BT crone get onto the taxi lads and complain about about 78% of them. The shit they come out with is unbelievable.

when I was in oirland over the christmas i had to get out of a taxi at about 4 in the morning with two lady's because the taxi driver was a racist wanker.

making us stand in the cold for ten minutes because he couldn't keep his racist mouth shut.

 

[jane]

Funny. I got derepped for pointing out that the majority of Irish people vote in favour of legislation that treats immigrants like scum, and if there is not a majority, then there is not enough resistance to these policies because there is generally a climate of public support. On the Irish Times poll last month, there was a clear majority (like 70/30) in favour of detention centres. Ok, not legally binding, but 80% voted for the citizenship referendum. Both of which are policies/strategies that take an attitude towards immigrants that is punitive.

It's happening in the UK and the US, suspicion towards immigrants becoming policy. These policies wouldn't exist if they weren't propped up by people's shitty attitudes.

80% of people would not have voted for the citizenship referendum if the majority of Irish people believed in treating foreigners with something other than suspicion. It's a sad and uncomfortable fact.

One standard for immigrants, one for Irish people. Even on Thumped.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

I think the Catholic church still has their own set of requirements, but they are nothing to do with the legal thing -- like I think you still have to apply to be 'released' from your local parish. Crazy stuff.

yes
see here

 

[jane]

yes
see here

It's so odd. Again, I'm not sure it always applies, and I'm not sure how the new laws that came in in November affected it.

At least we didn't have to go on a marriage course, but even if we had, at least our priests were both married!

 

[maims bond]

I work in the general area of immigration and we've been up to our eyes digesting this bill. The one thing that most people agree on, even politicians, is that this marriage thing won't be in the final bill. There isn't enough govt support for it.

One thing we are unlikely to get is a genuinely independent asylum/protection appeals tribunal, which was promised in the programme for govt but is completely absent from the proposed bill.

 

[jane]

I work in the general area of immigration and we've been up to our eyes digesting this bill. The one thing that most people agree on, even politicians, is that this marriage thing won't be in the final bill. There isn't enough govt support for it.

One thing we are unlikely to get is a genuinely independent asylum/protection appeals tribunal, which was promised in the programme for govt but is completely absent from the proposed bill.

The other thing is that beyond being a possible violation of the EU human rights convention (right to a private life), it's pretty much totally unenforceable. I mean, a lot of priests and solemnisers would be forced to breach confidentiality, for one, which is nutso, and then, how are they going to formulate the criteria to decide what makes a couple 'genuine'? Bonkers.

And the asylum and protection appeals tribunal? What interest would the government have in that when people don't seem to mind watching -- as was in the Indo the other day -- 'another batch of illegals' being herded onto a plane and shipped off? Sure, a few people might raise an eyebrow, but then everyone generally goes back to whatever they were doing. Maybe yelling at the Filipina cleaner or buying a willing Thai bride.

Anyone see the thing in the Metro this morning, where some nutjob has proposed a separate speed limit for foreigns? Fucking hell.