IRISH UNSIGNED BAND PETITION (1 Viewer)

[Pantone247]

yes, nasty arts council. only giving out money to organisations that help create professionalisation and sustainability in the arts, and not paying for my new amp. those pricks.

bloody reds

 

[taubstumm]

bloody reds

zing!

 

[hugh]

Is there not some new arts grant scheme called Culture Ireland that is supposed to take over from the Arts Council grants and whose remit specifically includes "popular music"?

 

[d.o.b]

hey TOM thanks for your thoughts on this.

now now i never said the arts council didn't do ANY work! of course they do lots of good for the arts in ireland under difficult conditions (but could DEFINATELY do more).

i just proposed my theory that part of the reason they have in the past prevented bands applying for specific bursary funding MAY have been due to the sheer volume of applications (many shite) that they knew they would recieve. IF this IS part of the reason i think it's not good enough. it's also ironic when you think about it - ''there are so many bands creating art (music) out there, so many that need specific support that we the a.c. have decided not to entertain any applications from any of them or financially support any of them specifically!''

my 'commercial' point is that there's a sense that the a.c. believe bands are'nt worthy artists and would only want money for amateuristic not very sustainable non-artistic reasons (i.e. for canons,holelicking usa tours/drum-parts/amps). however this may not necessarily be the case - not ALL bands might want the money for shallow unreasonable ideas such as SOME of your examples. Perhaps they have 'excellent' 'professional' and 'innovative' reasons (i.e. oh i dunno - em, an innovative sleeve for their independently released recording or an innovative idea for promoting it or money to fund venue fees and other costs for a unique excellent professional innovative night of independent music (art) with/without other bands in a large venue like the olympia or vicar street or something?....

if an individual artist/arts group can apply and recieve funding for a specific or on-going project of theirs and use this money to further their artistic aims/careers - why can't an individual band/musician? it makes no sense.

By their (in) actions on this, the arts council IS making a judgement call on independent bands/musicians, IS saying certain types of artforms are more worthy or 'better', IS saying- ''YOU, your art and your ideas are not as worthy (of financial support in particular) as compared to these types of art/artists!''

finally, the idea that bands should just be happy with the support the a.c. give to collectives like the f.m.c. and imro is like saying to an independent theatre group it should be content with the money the a.c. give to the theatre festival!

nonsense!

derrick

 

[billygannon]

Registered Nurse were given money from the their local government (I think it's New South Wales) to tour Europe.

I don't agree with bands being given money from the Arts Council for amps and other equipment.
I think if a band were to receive any money from the Arts Council, it should just be for tours abroad.
But as there are so many bands in Ireland, the only bands who'd receive any money would be those that schmooze - and there's far too much schmoozing in the Dublin music scene already.

 

[taubstumm]

hey TOM thanks for your thoughts on this.

now now i never said the arts council didn't do ANY work! of course they do lots of good for the arts in ireland under difficult conditions (but could DEFINATELY do more).

the arts council do some good work for the arts in ireland, and some bad work, for various reasons.

saying that they could definitely do more is somewhat pointless, though. they pretty much work flat out, especially the people who actually do the donkey work of keeping the whole thing going.

i think, however, that lots of people would agree that they could certainly do a lot of things *differently*. the arts council have limited resources, which sometimes get misused because they have a bad strategic approach to long-term development of the arts. however, that's kind of a whole other discussion. if you want to talk about that, cool.

i just proposed my theory that part of the reason they have in the past prevented bands applying for specific bursary funding MAY have been due to the sheer volume of applications (many shite) that they knew they would recieve.

the arts council has never prevented people from applying. they have music grants, and they have specific bursaries, and anyone can apply for them. if they get rejected, that doesn't mean that people were prevented from applying.

IF this IS part of the reason i think it's not good enough.

well, it's not the reason.

they already recieve plenty of shite applications. from bands, theatre groups, venues, solo artists, random nutters, etc.

they go through them all.

it's also ironic when you think about it - ''there are so many bands creating art (music) out there, so many that need specific support that we the a.c. have decided not to entertain any applications from any of them or financially support any of them specifically!''

well, they do entertain the applications, as i've said.

however, i actually think that the specific artist's bursaries are a really bad idea without the safety-net of multi-annual funding (m.a.f.), but that's just a personal view. m.a.f. got knocked on the head after olive braiden took over.

however, as a point of principle, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the arts council should *avoid* supporting individual bands/artists as a general rule of thumb. it encourages a dependency culture and doesn't help to create any long-term sustainability in the arts.

from the point of view of trying to create sustainability and innovation in the arts, it makes a lot more sense to pay for something like the f.m.c. than to pay for some band's new drumkit or whatever. there is an argument to be made for the arts council supporting bands when they tour abroad, but again that's kind of a side-issue.

my 'commercial' point is that there's a sense that the a.c. believe bands are'nt worthy artists and would only want money for amateuristic not very sustainable non-artistic reasons (i.e. for canons,holelicking usa tours/drum-parts/amps). however this may not necessarily be the case - not ALL bands might want the money for shallow unreasonable ideas such as SOME of your examples. Perhaps they have 'excellent' 'professional' and 'innovative' reasons (i.e. oh i dunno - em, an innovative sleeve for their independently released recording or an innovative idea for promoting it or money to fund venue fees and other costs for a unique excellent professional innovative night of independent music (art) with/without other bands in a large venue like the olympia or vicar street or something?....

that may well be true. it'd be a subjective interpretation.

however, if we're still going by what silver addictive say they *want* the money for: they specifically say in the first post on the thread that 'unsigned' bands spend money on "rehearsal rooms/ studio time/ equipment hire/ musical equipment/ venue hire/ transport/ manufacturing/ design/ photography/ Advertising/ sound engineers/ printing" - presumably that's what they want the money for.

why should they get handouts from the government for it, when the money could be better used to promote sustainability in the arts by funding institutions and infrastructure? if the arts council do this, it doesn't matter if a band is 'commercial' or not - it is sustainability in the arts which benefits.

i also happen to think that the concept of being 'unsigned' is an anachronism that *prevents* bands from realising their potential, but that's just me.

if an individual artist/arts group can apply and recieve funding for a specific or on-going project of theirs and use this money to further their artistic aims/careers - why can't an individual band/musician? it makes no sense.

an individual band/musician *can* apply. here, download the pdf: http://www.artscouncil.ie/funding/Docs/app_bursaries05_eng.pdf

silver addictive's assertion that bands are 'banned' from applying is a flat-out lie. also, the assertion that 'unsigned' bands give 120m euros to the exchequer each year seems to have just been dreamed up out of nowhere; they don't give reference for where that one came from.

By their (in) actions on this, the arts council IS making a judgement call on independent bands/musicians, IS saying certain types of artforms are more worthy or 'better', IS saying- ''YOU, your art and your ideas are not as worthy (of financial support in particular) as compared to these types of art/artists!''

well, it's not down to inaction. also, i disagree, but then this is a subjective interpretation.

finally, the idea that bands should just be happy with the support the a.c. give to collectives like the f.m.c. and imro is like saying to an independent theatre group it should be content with the money the a.c. give to the theatre festival!

that's ridiculous. the f.m.c. is an institution, not a festival. it caters specifically for independent and 'unsigned' bands and is funded by the arts council. any band or music organisation can ring them up and talk about any concerns they have. the number is 01-8782244. remember to be nice, it's your taxes paying the person who answers!

finally:

i think if silver addicitive (and whoever else's bands signed the petition) were being reasonable about funding, rather than just looking for publicity, they could very easily get money and support. they just have to remember that any band looking to get 'signed' is a business, not an artistic endeavour. here's who to talk to: http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/

 

[LMD64]

remind me what you do in work again, tom.

 

[Anne OMalley]

TOM FOR PRESIDENT

 

[taubstumm]

remind me what you do in work again, tom.

waste my lunchtime on the interweb, that's what.

 

[oh shit]

the arts council do some good work for the arts in ireland, and some bad work, for various reasons.

saying that they could definitely do more is somewhat pointless, though. they pretty much work flat out, especially the people who actually do the donkey work of keeping the whole thing going.

i think, however, that lots of people would agree that they could certainly do a lot of things *differently*. the arts council have limited resources, which sometimes get misused because they have a bad strategic approach to long-term development of the arts. however, that's kind of a whole other discussion. if you want to talk about that, cool.



the arts council has never prevented people from applying. they have music grants, and they have specific bursaries, and anyone can apply for them. if they get rejected, that doesn't mean that people were prevented from applying.



well, it's not the reason.

they already recieve plenty of shite applications. from bands, theatre groups, venues, solo artists, random nutters, etc.

they go through them all.



well, they do entertain the applications, as i've said.

however, i actually think that the specific artist's bursaries are a really bad idea without the safety-net of multi-annual funding (m.a.f.), but that's just a personal view. m.a.f. got knocked on the head after olive braiden took over.

however, as a point of principle, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the arts council should *avoid* supporting individual bands/artists as a general rule of thumb. it encourages a dependency culture and doesn't help to create any long-term sustainability in the arts.

from the point of view of trying to create sustainability and innovation in the arts, it makes a lot more sense to pay for something like the f.m.c. than to pay for some band's new drumkit or whatever. there is an argument to be made for the arts council supporting bands when they tour abroad, but again that's kind of a side-issue.



that may well be true. it'd be a subjective interpretation.

however, if we're still going by what silver addictive say they *want* the money for: they specifically say in the first post on the thread that 'unsigned' bands spend money on "rehearsal rooms/ studio time/ equipment hire/ musical equipment/ venue hire/ transport/ manufacturing/ design/ photography/ Advertising/ sound engineers/ printing" - presumably that's what they want the money for.

why should they get handouts from the government for it, when the money could be better used to promote sustainability in the arts by funding institutions and infrastructure? if the arts council do this, it doesn't matter if a band is 'commercial' or not - it is sustainability in the arts which benefits.

i also happen to think that the concept of being 'unsigned' is an anachronism that *prevents* bands from realising their potential, but that's just me.



an individual band/musician *can* apply. here, download the pdf: http://www.artscouncil.ie/funding/Docs/app_bursaries05_eng.pdf

silver addictive's assertion that bands are 'banned' from applying is a flat-out lie. also, the assertion that 'unsigned' bands give 120m euros to the exchequer each year seems to have just been dreamed up out of nowhere; they don't give reference for where that one came from.



well, it's not down to inaction. also, i disagree, but then this is a subjective interpretation.



that's ridiculous. the f.m.c. is an institution, not a festival. it caters specifically for independent and 'unsigned' bands and is funded by the arts council. any band or music organisation can ring them up and talk about any concerns they have. the number is 01-8782244. remember to be nice, it's your taxes paying the person who answers!

finally:

i think if silver addicitive (and whoever else's bands signed the petition) were being reasonable about funding, rather than just looking for publicity, they could very easily get money and support. they just have to remember that any band looking to get 'signed' is a business, not an artistic endeavour. here's who to talk to: http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/

that's far too much to read. can you give me it in a word? how about a sound?

 

[d.o.b]

hey tom and anyone else who cares
i have rung the arts council and await an official reply from them to my questions about this.

will post them later for all interested.

derrick