Ireland's retreat from religion (1 Viewer)

[robitusson]

Anyone read the Empty Pulpits book?

Sex, lies and the Catholic Church
By Eamon Maher
Saturday September 20 2008
Empty Pulpits: Ireland's Retreat from Religion

Malachi O'Doherty

Gill and Macmillan, €16.99

There has been a raft of books in recent times charting the decline of religion in Ireland. In the Introduction to Empty Pulpits, Malachi O'Doherty pulls no punches: "There isn't a country in the western world that has swung from such absorption in church life to such indifference so quickly."

O'Doherty, a journalist and broadcaster, writes lucidly about the reasons that have led to the disillusionment with religion (he is really only dealing with the Roman Catholic version) in a country that has heretofore always been considered extremely devout.

The forces of secularisation, like those of capitalism, were slow coming to Ireland, but when they came, they quickly took a foothold. To those who put forward the idea that the move away from institutional Catholicism began with revelations of clerical sex abuse, O'Doherty points to the massive decline in vocations to the priesthood that began two decades before.

Empty Pulpits is a compelling read. It is particularly strong when the author relates his own experiences of Catholicism.

I would have liked more exploration of how many people, in spite of the dominant secular forces at work, still retain a vibrant spiritual life. Are we secular now in much the same way as we were religious a few decades ago, that is to say in an unthinking, superficial way?

The idea put forward at the end of the book for the possible regeneration of faith in Ireland, perhaps fuelled by disillusionment with secular gods and the arrival of religious new migrants, while interesting, is nonetheless speculative.

The picture painted does not provide hope that the 'empty pulpits' will be filled in the near future. It is more likely that things will get worse before they get better.

Eamon Maher is co-editor, with John Littleton, of Contemporary Catholicism in Ireland: A Critical Appraisal (The Columba Press).

- Eamon Maher

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/sex-lies-and-the-catholic-church-1478835.html

 

[Skrankio-X]

True, you scoff at the notion of going to mass on Sunday 11 ' clock, but there's still a fair few lonely pope-fanciers (the absolute shit - contraception? Africa? Aids?) around all the same. As long as they get kept the fuck away anywhere near the idea of single denomination schools (close call recently) - they can fancy whatever imaginary omnipresent bastards they want.

In this day and age though. When was the enlightenment? 1700 and something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin

Mandatory viewing for any Irish person considering forming a thought in their own heads re: religion in this country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Road_to_Dublin_(film)

 

[plug]

yeah, true. I can't think of a single person I know, at least within the same generation, who has any commitment to the church whatsoever, but there are still plenty of god botherers knocking around. not to mention the influence the church still has in the educational system; basically if you don't baptise your child you're limiting their chances of enrolling in a national school if they're on a waiting list with lots of baptised children because the little catholic babies will get priority. quite the dilemma for an athiest/agnostic parent who has to choose between their child's education and their own beliefs. grrrr...

 

[nlgbbbblth]

I would never put my child's education before my own beliefs.

My parents still go to mass every Sunday. They're sound and I don't think any less of 'em.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I think there will be a resurgence. In a few years kids will be heading out at 7.20pm on a Saturday evening saying they're heading to the 'musies and they'll be sneaking off to mass/mosque/synagogue away from their evil atheist parents.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

im signing up to the legion of mary. anyone fancy helping me wheel this thing into General?

 

[broken arm]

Are we secular now in much the same way as we were religious a few decades ago, that is to say in an unthinking, superficial way?

this is something i find v. interesting but because I'm not a social scientist I struggle to explore in any meaningful way. The simple idea of separation of church and state is intuitively correct as it can accommodate diversity, the reality of globalisation etc blah.

What gets more interesting is when you look at the dimensions and trajectories of secularism, issues of governance (especially in multi-level governance)..... e.g. what has secularism every done for us?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

im signing up to the legion of mary. anyone fancy helping me wheel this thing into General?

I give you peace.
My peace I give you.

Attendances might rise if they did away with the whole shaking hands thing.

I used to dread it.

 

[magicbastarder]

four people from the legion of mary (admittedly, two of them were children) tried to get me to take a three foot tall statue of the virgin mary into my house a few years ago. they just wanted to leave it with me for a fortnight for some reason.
they succeeded with my neighbour - they asked him would he be willing to take a token of the virgin mary into his house, while one of the kids was standing where he couldn't be seen, holding the statue. so my neighbour said yeah, hoping it would get them off his doorstep, thinking it was going to be a miraculous medal.

anyway, one of them called around about a month later, looking a little desperate to get their statue back - they'd called around when my neighbour's housemate was in, but he denied all knowledge of a three foot plaster statue, saying he reckon he'd have seen one around, not knowing it was now being used as a coathanger.

 

[Goff]

four people from the legion of mary (admittedly, two of them were children) tried to get me to take a three foot tall statue of the virgin mary into my house a few years ago. they just wanted to leave it with me for a fortnight for some reason.
they succeeded with my neighbour - they asked him would he be willing to take a token of the virgin mary into his house, while one of the kids was standing where he couldn't be seen, holding the statue. so my neighbour said yeah, hoping it would get them off his doorstep, thinking it was going to be a miraculous medal.

anyway, one of them called around about a month later, looking a little desperate to get their statue back - they'd called around when my neighbour's housemate was in, but he denied all knowledge of a three foot plaster statue, saying he reckon he'd have seen one around, not knowing it was now being used as a coathanger.

Ah, the owl' hiding the drugs in the statues thing. Gas.

I reckon there actually will be a resurgence in church-going in the next few decades. People need comfort. When their loved ones start dying and they don't see the point in life, they'll need some form of solace. Once we clear the catholic church of all the pervs from the dress-wearing fraternity, it'll be all change.

 

[therealjohnny]

The only aspect I like about Catholicism is the pagan idolatry

 

[egg_]

I reckon there actually will be a resurgence in church-going in the next few decades. People need comfort. When their loved ones start dying and they don't see the point in life, they'll need some form of solace.

Ah yeah, nobody's loved ones are dying now, that's why church attendances are falling

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Bad weather catholicism is pretty prevalent and the number of angel shops around astounds me.

 

[Moods For Mallards]

Bad weather catholicism is pretty prevalent and the number of angel shops around astounds me.

Are you sure they're not bagel shops?

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Angels and Bagels. Now there's a concept I can get behind. We could call it Bangels.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

even the prods are worried about it

X Factor fills vacuum left by God in schools, says head

i find it annoying the way religious people think only they can tell the difference between right and wrong and that morality needs god

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0930/1222724573159.html

Habermas acknowledged that the values held dear in a globalising world, such as human rights, liberty of conscience or social democracy, spring from Judeo-Christian thinking, he said.

if it hadnt been for moses and the tablets humanity would never have turned its back on murder and covetousness

 

[Shorty]

i find it annoying the way religious people think only they can tell the difference between right and wrong and that morality needs god

Well, in a way, 'morality' does need god, that's where the problem lies or starts. This kindof goes back to the what is evil thread.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Well, in a way, 'morality' does need god, that's where the problem lies or starts. This kindof goes back to the what is evil thread.

im not reading that thread, its too long. i dont understand the origins of the word morality or know if it comes from something biblical or religious etc - i just used it to refer broadly to ones general sense of right and wrong or good and bad.

 

[egg_]

Well, in a way, 'morality' does need god, that's where the problem lies or starts.

Where are you getting that from? Did you read the "what is evil" thread?