How present are female musicians in the line-up at the Camden Crawl 2013? (1 Viewer)

[GirlsRockCampIE]

http://www.youreonlymassive.com/gender-crawl/

 

[east hastings]

How many black people are playing this weekend?

 

[GirlsRockCampIE]

*quit derailing the thread*

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Yes, I agree, the only way to avoid tokenism is to add 11% more random females to bring the number of to 30% a nice round number you pulled out of your hole!

 

[Mormon Nailer]

How many black people are playing this weekend?

Or how many Polish bands?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Also, you were very worried about the transsexuals and hermaphrodites at the top of the infographic there, well done, though your interest waned a bit by the end - do you have a *bare minimum* percentage of each of these you'd like to propose.

 

[Anthony]

32% of bands at a festival with women in is not bad. Pretty decent percentage I would have thought.

 

[washingcattle]

I'm pretty sure we explained why there aren't enough bands with women members in this thread already.

http://www.thumped.com/bbs/threads/female-rock-punk-bands-in-ireland.88367/

Far more teenage boys form bands so 10 years later there are far more men on the average bill.


I worked in a guitar shop where our footfall was 80% under the age of 20 and out of that 90% were teenage boys.


I find this kind of thread pretty insulting to be honest. I've been putting in the effort for 17 years and rarely gotten a break such as playing at a festival.

Are you proposing that an all male band be excluded from a festival line up based on gender rather than ability ?

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Last time I saw Hunk play they had a male drummer.

 

[ann post]

The population of ireland does not represent the population of people playing music or forming bands. bringing per capita gender issues into it seems weird to me. Any all female bands i know are playing festivals because they are good and work hard and people like them, not because of some demeaning gender quota. Maybe if you look at the actual population of female acts rather than the population of the country, it might be a worthwhile comparison. Some of the poeple in my band are female, they are there because they are talented, not because i kicked out a few men to even things out.

 

[washingcattle]

I've argued for years that a festival like this should represent the wider cultural demographics regarding the actual music scene of Ireland. For example there are more DIY punk and hardcore gigs in Ireland every year than there are gigs of any other kind. There are probably more Metal bands in Ireland than there are women playing music. These groups are marginalised at best and completely ignored generally by festivals like this.

Instead what appears on festival bills represent the current trends in London/NYC etc or what's popular on blogs. None of which is a fair representation of what is actually happening in Ireland. To bring gender issues into this strikes me as fairly irelivant.

Every festival represents that tastes of the organisers and their expectations to make a return on their investments and that's absolutely fine. It's their baby so to speak and they have every right to absolute control.
In my opinion placing demands on them to represent any one special interest group misses the far more relivant issue. If there were to be a democratic festival it would be ridiculous to expect that 30% of the bands be female rather than to expect that 25% be involved directly in DIY hardcore/punk etc and 25% be Metal bands.

 

[Theseus Mock]

When 63% of acts are entirely male, what musical role models do girls, women, trans* and inter*gender people have in Irish music scenes?

Why would you choose someone from a small shitty band to be a role model? Surely you'd go a lot higher to the likes of Enya, Sinead O'Connor, Roisin Murphy, Julie Feeney, etc?

Dream big.

 

[GirlsRockCampIE]

@Mormen Nailor
Tokenism tends to be less than 15%. Are you even aware of the concept of tokenism??? Honestly, you should take some time to read about it. Or you know, just stop talking. Please don't use transphobic language such as "hermaphrodites". If you don't know why this is transphobic, just google the term and "transphobic".

@ everyone else
Do you agree with Mormen Nailor? Because, if you don't, it looks like you do from here.

Anthony - yes, we were going to look at LIFE Festival but got so depressed we decided to analyse a festival that seemed to have a higher percentage of female artists. With the hope that, maybe there might be more of a possibility of improvement. However many of these bands just have one female musician. There are still just 19 % of female musicians overall, which is an awfully low number! There is really a very large room for improvement. I hope that you will support us in trying to make this happen

washingcattle -That thread was such a joke, largely because there were, if I recall, three or four women talking in the whole thing. Just a load of boys agreeing that girls just need to work harder…ahem! Unfortunately, many men don't see the obstacles that exist to women when it comes to forming bands because - surprise surprise - they don't face the same obstacles. I have always experienced music instruments shops as incredibly sexists, be it as a clueless teenager in Waterford or an experienced and knowledgeable adult. Please don't think that playing in a band is "all about the music" and gender doesn't come into it. It's not an accident that thing are the way they are.

I also agree with you that there should be a wider representation of genres - such as metal - in mainstream line-ups. I personally think it's a travesty that a band like Primordial never get mentions in the media. However this thread is about gender and you are derailing it by bringing in issues like this. Please bring this issue up elsewhere!

GARYXKNIFEDX - cool, thanks for the info. In general, we just went with the info available. So when a female solo artist has a male backing band, but her biog and press shots just depict the female solo artist, we went with just counting what was in the biog and press shots. It's probably true that female musicians are a little overrepresented in the infographic. In the case of HUNK I believe that their press shot depicts three female musicians and not a male drummer.

@annpost - so you think it's okay that the irish music scene is male dominated? because I don't. I believe that everyone should have access to making music, regardless of gender, race, cultural background, physical ability or economic class. No-one is questioning the talent of female musicians. And that is wonderful if there is gender equality in your band without even having to think about it - however that is not reflected in the line-ups of Irish music events.

Theseus Mock - It's kinda dodging the issue to say that these bands don't matter and the only ones that matter are people at the level of the female solo artists you mentioned. Also, those you mentioned are all solo artists - what about girls / women that want to form bands?

In general, are you all even aware how defensive you are coming across right now?

Anyway, I'm not going to continue wasting my time trying to explain myself to people who are committed to misunderstanding me.
If you are interested in the results of more research, and in changing the gender inequality in irish music scenes, please mail [email protected]
<3

 

[ann post]

@annpost - so you think it's okay that the irish music scene is male dominated? because I don't. I believe that everyone should have access to making music, regardless of gender, race, cultural background, physical ability or economic class. No-one is questioning the talent of female musicians. And that is wonderful if there is gender equality in your band without even having to think about it - however that is not reflected in the line-ups of Irish music events.

Which is more demeaning though? Not playing at festivals because you arent what they want musically, or getting to play at them to fill out equality ideals? I'd say the latter.
I don't think festival organisers really sit around listening to demos and then checking are the artists male.

I'd rather not go into a private email conversation on something like this. I'd rather these people who apparently don't have equal access to making music have at least equal chances of seeing the conversation.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Do you have to apply for Dublin Camden Crawl or are bands asked? If the former it would be interesting to see what the gender breakdown of all acts who applied was.

 

[rettucs]

Dublin Camden Crawl are a pack of sexists.

its a disgrace

 

[rettucs]

Dublin Camden Sausagefest

 

[nooleen]

 

[rettucs]

In general, we just went with the info available.

we went with just counting what was in the biog and press shots.

exhaustive research.

 

[GirlsRockCampIE]