Home recording - I need a new setup I think (1 Viewer)

[redegg]

I have all my demos done and I want to get them recorded properly using pro tools. I want to get into home recording mainly (also video editing).

I currently have Dell Inspiron, XP Service Pack 2 / 1.86Ghz, 504 MB Ram / SigmaTel High Definition Audio (sound card).

My options....

Should I install Windows 7 on my current machine?
Get a MacBook?
Get a new Windows seven Machine?

Also, I am thinking of getting an M-Box with protools. Is this recommended or is there something better on the market these days? Is any sound card OK for pro tool or should I buy a powerful one?

Thanks for reading. Any help would be great as I am a bit confused by it all

 

[ann post]

i had this very same question last year.

first up, XP is probably more stable the windows 7 from what i hear, though i dont know this 100%, somone might tell you different and be right.

your machine doesnt really ahve enough ram to record comfortably, you can use this website to check how much ram you can put in your machine. recording is all about ram, then about processor, then about hard drive space. i've found that songs tend to be 1gb+ each, but i dont multitrack heavily (8-10 tracks at present). 2gb would be a comfortable amount of ram, one is useable to a point, but i dont know what your doing so i'm not giving a finite answer.

if your machine cant take more then its present amount of ram then you need a new one.

as regards protools, there are quite a few recording packages available, pro tools is not the be all and end all of recording. reason, cubase, logic (mac) and quite a few others. also there is a package called reaper which is free to use and seems to be starting to take quite a share in the home studio sector.

as regards the mbox, its one of many options. I'd say first thing you should do is decide what you need. get a scrap of paper and draw out what you want to happen in your studio then spend some time investigating whats on the market to achieve this.

do you need simultaneous inputs so you can record a number of tracks at once?? do you need more then one headphone output?? in my case i needed a minimum of 8 tracks to record with and i wanted a digital (spidif/fibre optic) connection to import audio from my old machinery.

the mbox/pro tools option is quite expensive in my eyes. if its only yourself recording you could use your present machine with a ram upgrade, reaper and a small audio interface (doesnt have to be an mbox) and be able to get started for less then 300euro. a lot of audio interfaces will come packaged with a stripped out version of cubase or pro-tools, and when you want to expand its a high premium.

most imnportant thing i've found with home recording is good microphones, good preamps and good headphones, the software and hardware you use to record isnt going to effect the result as much as these things will.

 

[pissypants]

Great post Ann.
Just to pitch in, I've been running protools for years on a Pentium 4 machine with only 1GB of RAM. Of course more would be better, but it's still an absolute workhorse.

Regarding what software to use, as I've said elsewhere on this forum, I've gradually been phasing out protools and using Reaper (as you've mentioned above) which is both amazing and free (well, functions fully without any restrictions, so long as you can put up with the so-called "nag-screen" on startup that asks you to pay $60 if you use it for more than 30 days).

As you said, the mics and preamps are going to be much more important, so save money by using Reaper and spend the savings on getting a decent set of 2nd hand pre-amps instead of the m-box stuff.

Similarly, I'd stay with XP if you've got it.

This article might help too:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov04/articles/pcmusician.htm


But as direct answers:

Should I install Windows 7 on my current machine? No
Get a MacBook? No
Get a new Windows seven Machine? Not necessarily although you'll probably need to upgrade your current hardware setup

Also, I am thinking of getting an M-Box with protools. Is this recommended or is there something better on the market these days? The M-Box stuff, while functionable, is kind of the "hi-fi enthusiast" version of Audio recording. There's plenty more and better out there depending on your requirements and budget.

Is any sound card OK for pro tool or should I buy a powerful one? No not just any soundcard is good. For starters you'll need one capable of very low latency for layering multi-track recordings. A lot's going to depend on your requirements and budget. Take a look here for starters! : http://www.thomann.de/ie/firewire_audio_interfaces.html.

If you were to tell us exactly what and how you want to record (eg full band live, or just acoustic and vocal with reason for synths, and other instruments layered on one-by-one afterwards...whatever), *and* what your budget is we can give you better answers.

 

[redegg]

Thanks for the very helpful replies.

Music will be done solo. Each song having about 5-10 layers/tracks. Most electric guitar layers, drones, some distorted keys, vocals, some drum machines and some sitar. It's not going to be very terribly loud but there will be quite a lot going on.. No live drums.. maybe some boomy toms and some light cymbal noise. I have an SM 58 microphone at the minute. Budget wise... hmm. For the recording equipment/hardware under 500. What other pre amps are on the market that you recommend? I don't actually need to record 2 tracks at the same time.. On the surface it looks great but I don't think it's much use to me as I like to do my tracks separately. As long as it records a clear/static noise free signal. I am happy.

I have never heard of reaper but both of you have already sold it to me.

Also, I recorded my demos through an SP 404 then to the standard microphone input into Adobe Audition. It worked fine although there was quite a lot of static noise. It's like a high pitched noise, not loud but noticable. Is my sound card screwed?

 

[dudley]

aye, stay away from win 7, very bad driver support for older cards and hardware, and while some software runs amazingly well, some runs terribly slowly

 

[pissypants]

OK, for that money, and considering you'll need some Mics too:
A second hand M-Box for about 200 euro
http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=89402&cat=all

It should come with Protools LE (and often lot's of good plugins too), so you can choose between it, and Reaper. (you'll need to download Windows XP ASIO drivers for the M-Box to use it with Reaper). These were made by digidesign before the lower quality M-audio stuff started to come out.
This particular model has Focusrite pre-amps which are very nice thank you.
It's got one more channel than you need, but will be handy if you want to use 2 mics for a stereo recording or a double mic setup for guitar or whatever in future....

You could also consider adding one of these into your input chain for a little analogue tubey goodness:
http://www.thomann.de/ie/art_tube_mp.htm

So that's 250 euro spent...

then....

Rhode NT1-A mic - for 175 euro
http://www.thomann.de/ie/rode_nt1_a_complete_vocal_recording.htm
Great for vocals and other general purpose stuff too, for example as an additional guitar mic for your amp (at a distance!). Good for general purpose on acoustic instruments too - sitars and whatever.

then for your cymbals:
an AKG PERCEPTION 170 for 88 euro - http://www.thomann.de/ie/akg_perception_170.htm

or to go slightly more over budget (depending on if you get the ART or not!) , you could try a Rode M3:
http://www.thomann.de/ie/rode_m3.htm for 98 euro


Reaper already comes with loads of plugins, but look around here on thumped for plenty more great free ones, e.g. : HERE or google search "free vst effects" or instruments to get loads of great free stuff on sites such as: http://www.audiomastermind.com/browse-free_vst_plugins-5886988-1.html


I'm presuming you already have good monitors for mixing on, because if they're crap, your mixes are going to be crap! Also - this is assuming you don;t have to upgrade your computer!

 

[redegg]

Thanks for the great reply! Really helps with my search!

In other news my laptop can only take a max of crappyish 1 gig ram.. This seems pretty bad right? I am guessing this is nowhere near enough if I eventually want to go down the video editing route in the future.

edit: would I be right in say I should avoid the Behringer brand when it comes to pre amps?

 

[worthit]

I wouldn't go with a second hand mbox as Digidesign have stopped support for these and they are pretty much obsolete at this stage. And 200 euro is an absolute rip off for it. You can get a brand new mbox 2 mini for 200 euro. It only has 1 mic input but you could get an Mbox2 for an extra 100 euro and get 2 inputs. It will come with protools 8 which your machine wont be capable of running but you can use it with reaper. But seriously do not consider getting that second hand mbox. They're worth about 30 euro if anything at all.

 

[redegg]

Pretty sure I am going to get this Focusrite Saffire 6 USB and a Rode NTI (as recommended above) This should be a good start up I think? Any one know anything about these two products before I go ahead and press the buy button?

 

[ann post]

i've a focusrite a few models above that one (the pro 40). I've had software issue's recently but they were all caused by my mac, not the focusrite, and their support were on the case within 24 hours of the email. i love it but i haven't used much else in the same price range, i had a edirol FA 101 on loan recently and its pretty competent too. I just checked on their prices though, the focusrite seems as good a bet as any in that range. many horror stories with dying mbox's to tell (3 of my mates had them)

If you are buying through thomann, i just noticed you can do one of them 'creative bundle' things and save about 15 quid.

 

[pissypants]

I wouldn't go with a second hand mbox as Digidesign have stopped support for these and they are pretty much obsolete at this stage. And 200 euro is an absolute rip off for it. You can get a brand new mbox 2 mini for 200 euro. It only has 1 mic input but you could get an Mbox2 for an extra 100 euro and get 2 inputs. It will come with protools 8 which your machine wont be capable of running but you can use it with reaper. But seriously do not consider getting that second hand mbox. They're worth about 30 euro if anything at all.

The M-box works just fine with windows XP, and I wouldn't worry about digidesign stopping support for them. (never heard any m-box dying reports Ann - worst I heard before was a friend frying a channel!) Also the new M-Box models don't have focusrite pre-amps.
Granted 200 euro is a lot, and you could get one a lot cheaper elsewhere....But the value is in getting protools and all the other digidesign software junk with it too.. but yeah you could probably still get one cheaper...

The NT1 is great for the money, and though I've not used a Saffire, from memory that range generally gets great reviews in magazines I've read. Go look online and there should be plenty of user reviews.

 

[redegg]

This bundle

I did see this but I was reading up about the T.Bone series. They seem a bit dodgy and aren't they just cheap chinese imported microphones with a T.Bone brand. Reviews were good and bad but there seems to be too many bad ones I think to actually risk paying for one that might break or just perform as well as I had hoped. Any idea ?

 

[ann post]

never heard any m-box dying reports Ann

three mates go three on contract work, they all died. thats what i know - they wouldn't be the type to report things, but it did happen.

This bundle

I did see this but I was reading up about the T.Bone series. They seem a bit dodgy and aren't they just cheap chinese imported microphones with a T.Bone brand. Reviews were good and bad but there seems to be too many bad ones I think to actually risk paying for one that might break or just perform as well as I had hoped. Any idea ?

i've never used t-bone, in general best advice is probably shell out for a NT1 if can stretch that far. if you cant i can recommend the samson C1 off that list as i've owned and regularly used one for a few years, its an NT1 copy, and i used one side by side with an NT1 recently, i would say the NT1 was better but its an impressive copy. i've a few samson mics and they do what they say on the tin.

when you can have reaper for free i dont see a reason for biasing the decision over bundled software.

 

[Space]

Mark on here is looking to get rid of an Mbox.

http://thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?79456-mbox

 

[redegg]

Just a quick question. The Rode NT1-A.

I am more intested in recording from a guitar amps or other instruments as opposed to doing a capella in my bedroom. Vocals will either be very quiet and mellow or quite a bit of yelping and shouting. Is this microphone a bit advanced for what i want?

 

[pissypants]

three mates go three on contract work, they all died. thats what i know - they wouldn't be the type to report things, but it did happen.

Mega-ouch...

when you can have reaper for free i dont see a reason for biasing the decision over bundled software.

That's true, but thought it could be worth it to a man eager to try protools. I'm Reaper all the way.

 

[ann post]

Mega-ouch...

i mean the m-box's died, just to clarify.

 

[pissypants]

i mean the m-box's died, just to clarify.

 

[worthit]

I have a dead mbox 1. I don't think the old ones are actually compatible with Protools 8 so you wouldn't be able to upgrade. I could be wrong though. Protools 8 is great so you wouldn't want to be losing out on it.

I have a Rode NT2 which I really like so I'd imagine the Rode NT1a is nice too.

 

[josephk]

is reaper free?