Does vinyl sound better? (2 Viewers)

[Lili Marlene]

How big is 8bits of dynamic range?

 

[MilanPan!c]

How big is 8bits of dynamic range?

In what sense?

 

[therealjohnny]

one more than 7

 

[Lili Marlene]

In what sense?

in the sense that this doesn't mean a lot to me because i have no idea what music is supposed to sound like:

To determine the effective bit rate necessary to fully capture the information on a vinyl LP, you need to know the bandwidth and the dynamic range. A typical vinyl LP has a bandwidth of about 18kHz (when it's brand new, it might get up to about 22kHz). There is certainly some audio stuff above that, but it generally bears no relation to meaningful programme material (ie. it's noise and distortion). So let's be generous and assume a bandwidth of 22kHz: you'll need to sample this at 44kHz. The dynamic range of a beautifully pressed LP on virgin vinyl can get to about 65-70dB on a good day with a following wind, which equates to slightly less than 12 bits. So the bit rate required is 44,000 x 12 x 2 (for stereo), giving about 1030kbs. A more typical LP (18kHz bandwidth, dynamic range of 55dB) needs a bit rate of about 650kbs. For comparison purposes, the CD bit rate is 1378kbs.

and I don't mean in a "a good song is a good song mate" way, I mean, how much of this can people hear? Are we talking just an academic difference that computers can measure (and a few people who want to show of their exceptional hearing)?

How many kbs am I hearing when I strum my guitar?

 

[MilanPan!c]

in the sense that this doesn't mean a lot to me because i have no idea what music is supposed to sound like:


and I don't mean in a "a good song is a good song mate" way, I mean, how much of this can people hear? Are we talking just an academic difference that computers can measure (and a few people who want to show of their exceptional hearing)?

How many kbps am I hearing when I strum my guitar?

No.

And there's more to it than there appears initially, because records degrade pretty quickly, at least the top end of the frequency range.


As for what you can hear, in a perfect situation many humans can here about 20bits.

But when music is mastered the dynamic range is usually diminished greatly. Which is why this is pretty meaningless to many people.

My point was that vinyl can't inherently produce sound as accurately as a CD, etc. So it can't inherently sound better.

Different? 100%

Better, not because of the format alone, no.

 

[Lili Marlene]

yeah but

Life man. LIFE.

 

[therealjohnny]

/end thread

 

[MilanPan!c]

yeah but

Life man. LIFE.

Lol.

Well, I can get you a surface noise generator, EQ, and bit crusher for your CD player if degradation is your bag... And I say this as a huge GBV fan.

 

[pete]

well someone thinks it sounds better

Largest vinyl record pressing plant in the US is expanding | Ars Technica

 

[hydromancer]

My understanding is a cd will typicaly hold 16 bit information which is the same as flac file ? But maybe i am wrong and they can hold more ?

 

[Lili Marlene]

In a way the whole thing is a misleading question. It's like the new Hobbit films coming out in 50-60 frames per second frame rate. It's technically better but it's not what we're used to seeing when we watch a film and it feels all off and wrong.

Cue massive tangent into a technological-minded society versus a philosophical or religious one.

 

[ann post]

I'm all for the aesthetics with bhynils. Cover art and the thing where its easier to listen to a whole side than skip about tracks.

I think mp3 is generally awful.

A also wholeheartedly believe that the out of audible range audio content on them and CD's makes a difference harmonically.

I could do with a much better record player though

 

[Anthony]

When you start writing sentences that look like maths equations in this discussion you've already lost.

 

[ann post]

DVD has a bigger range than CD. It matters more in terms of volume range detail than sound quality though.

 

[MilanPan!c]

well someone thinks it sounds better

Largest vinyl record pressing plant in the US is expanding | Ars Technica

People love it for a wide variety of reasons, many of them completely unfounded, and that's great

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

I have listened to flacs that were hissy as fuck.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Beatles ones

 

[MilanPan!c]

DVD has a bigger range than CD. It matters more in terms of volume range detail than sound quality though.

This is true. However - and this isn't aimed at you, it just reminded me to add - this whole conversation is about potential. Having a recording with no dynamics and sticking on a DVD won't add dynamics. However, if you have something extremely dynamic you won't be able to properly catch some of it on a record/cassette.

The sound will get lost in the noise floor sooner than on a CD/DVD.

 

[MilanPan!c]

Beatles ones

Of course!

But that's no really anything to do with vinyl vs CD. That's down to the original source. A CD will just capture that hiss and pass it on.

 

[ann post]

This is true. However - and this isn't aimed at you, it just reminded me to add - this whole conversation is about potential. Having a recording with no dynamics and sticking on a DVD won't add dynamics. However, if you have something extremely dynamic you won't be able to properly catch some of it on a record/cassette.

The sound will get lost in the noise floor sooner than on a CD/DVD.

true. it would all be about the A/D conversion to take advantage.

I think i only mentioned it because i've been recording my album in 48khz rather than 44.