Do single women still exist?? (1 Viewer)

[Raudi Raus Schinkel]

This is getting serious, feck it lads,

VIBES!!!

 

[jane]

Human sexuality is hard wired. And it is that hard wired determined self is what perceives its environment. If you throw a small stone or a big stone in the sea they will create different splashes. It's not the sea - the sea is uniform, but the unique quality of each stone that determines the splash. Humans are not programmed to be attracted to both sexes. Any cultural influence that persuades someone to believe they are bisexual is purely psychological. As I said, it's a result of half-repression of full homosexuality. The way genetics works means that a brain is either fully gay, or not gay at all.

Genetics? I thought you were an undergraduate psychology student.

And the sea? Do we all live in the sea? What's uniform? I don't know what you're comparing a sea to.

Can you demonstrate to me, since you're so keen on evidence, exactly how you can say that sexuality is not only hardwired, but that it is wired in a way to make bisexuals, genderqueers, etc into deviants? The current research into the psychology of gender and sexuality does not suggest that biology is absolutely absent from sexuality, but that too much is made of its role in human sexual desires and behaviours.

And even if someone consciously chose to be bisexual, how can you argue that it doesn't exist? It exists because it is there. There are biological and cultural and social and personal factors in all of these behaviours. It's not because someone's brain isn't gay enough.

Crying, smiling, the desire to learn, anger, mistakes, reflexes, thought, perception, association..

Each one filtered through culture. Human behaviours do not take place outside of the cultural realm. People cry over different things, have varying desires to learn, get angry over different things, etc, etc. None of those are any evidence. I cry at ads for animal charities. Someone else doesn't. Is that instinct? Is it that I have some biological trait that differs from someone who keeps a straight face at them? Does it mean I care more about animals, or just that I cry more easily at stuff like that?

 

[therealjohnny]

While I have happily been co-habiting with my girlfriend for a number of years and prefer fanny to bumhole, the decisive arguments and acrobatic wordplay in this thread are causing feelings of sexually attraction to Steve Blunt. Which is sort of paradoxical when you think about it

best not to though

 

[Pantone247]

I hear that Single Women were invented by the CIA to justify the war in Iraq. All the US soliders believe that there is a cache of Single Women hidden somewhere in Iraq, even though there is no evidence of their exsistence

 

[egg_]

We may not be fully equipped with the knowledge to predict everything a human will do, but we are pretty close.

Hahahahahaha!
You're like one of those artificial intelligence guys back in the 70s who said we'd have robot servants by the year 2000. See if you can find any of your lecturers who agree with your statement above - I' be very very surprised if you did

 

[ronan]

See if you can find any of your lecturers who agree with your statement above

One of his psychology lecturers?

I give up....

 

[jane]

But what are humans but a complex mix of chemicals? Do you believe in a soul, seperate from the chemical reactions in our brains? I think evolutionary psychology proves that we are completely at the mercy of our genes. We may not be fully equipped with the knowledge to predict everything a human will do, but we are pretty close. Unfortunately I don't know enough about neuro psychology but my aim is to study in that area.

A soul? Who said anything about a soul? Your argument -- if it can be called one -- is predicated on the notion that humans have no free will. When presented with a situation, people have a range of choices as to how they can respond to it.

So you don't believe humans have no free will, no capacity to make reasoned decisions? Because if so, then how can you say you are arguing based on logic, if all of our behaviours are genetically pretetermined? Do you believe you are preprogrammed to be a psychology undergraduate?

Humans are socialised. There may be biological or neurological tendencies towards certain traits, and with those particular traits, a tendency to engage in certain behaviours, but that doesn't mean we are all genetically determined to do what we do.

and by the way I nearly always get firsts in my essayz.

Well, then maybe you have a gay lecturer who wants to do you like a hawk. Have you checked his brain? Or maybe a female lecturer who wants you to love her for her lipstick. Check to see how much makeup she's wearing.

 

[jane]

While I have happily been co-habiting with my girlfriend for a number of years and prefer fanny to bumhole, the decisive arguments and acrobatic wordplay in this thread are causing feelings of sexually attraction to Steve Blunt. Which is sort of paradoxical when you think about it

best not to though

Maybe you should have your brain checked for gay.

 

[magicbastarder]

does stephenoblunt pass the turing test?

 

[jane]

Hahahahahaha!
You're like one of those artificial intelligence guys back in the 70s who said we'd have robot servants by the year 2000. See if you can find any of your lecturers who agree with your statement above - I' be very very surprised if you did

By the way, here, Egg, do computers ever do things that weren't predicted? Like, a crash happens, and you might eventually figure out what caused it, but it might be something that hadn't been thought of before? Or does it sometimes do things and you manage to fix it and you're not sure what you even fixed, just that it's fixed? (And remember that time you saved my ass by taking all that spyware off my computer? That was like watching an amazing magic trick.)

I think what I'm getting at is that if we can't even predict every single thing a machine does, how can we predict everything a human does, when unlike a computer, humans have a cognitive complexity that far exeeds any technological complexity we could ever construct?

 

[Pantone247]

I think what I'm getting at is that if we can't even predict every single thing a machine does, how can we predict everything a human does, when unlike a computer, humans have a cognitive complexity that far exeeds any technological complexity we could ever construct?

I totally knew you were going to say that...

 

[jane]

I totally knew you were going to say that...

Watch out or I will track you down with my bat-like sonar and....I'm not sure.

Could someone check my genetic code and let me know what I'd do next?

 

[stephenoblunt]

Genetics? I thought you were an undergraduate psychology student.

They overlap. As I said I'm interested in evolutionary psychology.

And the sea? Do we all live in the sea? What's uniform? I don't know what you're comparing a sea to.

What I mean is that it's the person who determines the splash, not the sea. A gay splash is caused by gay genes.

And even if someone consciously chose to be bisexual, how can you argue that it doesn't exist? It exists because it is there. There are biological and cultural and social and personal factors in all of these behaviours. It's not because someone's brain isn't gay enough.

Ok, you got me there. It doesn't exist biologicaly. It only exists in the mind.

Can you demonstrate to me, since you're so keen on evidence, exactly how you can say that sexuality is not only hardwired, but that it is wired in a way to make bisexuals, genderqueers, etc into deviants?

Because it is an instinct. It's the same as saying that smiling is hardwired. Homosexuality is programed into some people, or heterosexuality - but not both! The gene doesn't give out two conflicting messages, only one is read. As soon as they find the gay gene I'm going to tattoo it all over my chest! I don't think bis or trannies are evil or anything, I just think that they are repressing homosexuality.

Each one filtered through culture. Human behaviours do not take place outside of the cultural realm. People cry over different things, have varying desires to learn, get angry over different things, etc, etc. None of those are any evidence. I cry at ads for animal charities. Someone else doesn't. Is that instinct? Is it that I have some biological trait that differs from someone who keeps a straight face at them? Does it mean I care more about animals, or just that I cry more easily at stuff like that?

I agree with all that. Yes, sexuality is filtered through culture - people repress their sexuality so they end up half gay/half straight. I was just giving examples of behaviours that are innate. Being gay is innate. Being straight is innate. Being bi isn't. It is conjured by the mind of the person repressing their feelings of lust for the same sex.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Because it is an instinct. It's the same as saying that smiling is hardwired. Homosexuality is programed into some people, or heterosexuality - but not both! The gene doesn't give out two conflicting messages, only one is read. As soon as they find the gay gene I'm going to tattoo it all over my chest! I don't think bis or trannies are evil or anything, I just think that they are repressing homosexuality.

 

[stephenoblunt]

"A soul? Who said anything about a soul? Your argument -- if it can be called one -- is predicated on the notion that humans have no free will. When presented with a situation, people have a range of choices as to how they can respond to it."

Why do you think I believe humans have no free will??



"So you don't believe humans have no free will"

That's not true.




"Well, then maybe you have a gay lecturer who wants to do you like a hawk. Have you checked his brain? Or maybe a female lecturer who wants you to love her for her lipstick. Check to see how much makeup she's wearing."

Stop making fun of me, it's really hurtful. I'm doing my best. I'm not evil. What I think shouldn't make you try to hurt me.

 

[Bladez]

But do single women still exist??!! Nobody is addressing the real issue!

 

[magicbastarder]

'the gay gene'?
so there's only one gene which controls sexuality?

 

[Lili Marlene]

But do single women still exist??!! Nobody is addressing the real issue!

are we all dressing up as single women at the fancy dress party?

 

[jane]

They overlap. As I said I'm interested in evolutionary psychology.

But there is a major problem here when it comes to tracking back human behaviours through the evolutionary process. We know so little with any certainty about people in the past, and this is filtered through the biases, research interests, and cultural contexts of the scholars who study it, that we can't really say anything with certainty. We could find a gene that says someone might have had a tendency to become an alcoholic, but genetic traits are expressed through culture, so that gene could have actually influenced some totally different behaviour. Or maybe what we'd call alcoholism was totally acceptable, and so would not have had the same social impact. And then, when we get to the level of social impact, you're into archaeology and that is definitely something I know about, and no, we can't really say how things would have played out.

All we have is the detritus from human life, and, well, do you think all of your complexity as a human being could be read from your trash bin? It couldn't. It might get some thigns very right, others very wrong, and in other situations, it may present a list of equally likely possibilities. So it's no more possible to do so for people in the past. We can discuss things, and make suggestions, and use evidence to support various interpretations, but we'll never have a complete picture.

We don't know how or why humans evolved the way we did. And because human behaviour, even if informed by genetic codes, is expressed through social and cultural interaction, we can't say anything with certainty about how dead people would have responded to genetic codes any more than we can say anything about how they would have responded to cultural codes.

What I mean is that it's the person who determines the splash, not the sea. A gay splash is caused by gay genes.

A gay splash?

But you should look at more current research, and you would very quickly discover that, while there are some differences between the brains of people of varying sexuality, there are some very important points to consider. One, these differences are very much fluid, and two, that people do not develop their sexualities along solely biological lines. So while there may certainly be some biological differences it can't explain sexuality as it exists in the world. So the biological explanations for the differences (that are not exhibited by everyone who is not a heterosexual) are essentially meaningless.

In other words, to go back to the booze, we know that there are alcoholics who have genes that may predispose them to alcoholism. That does not mean that everyone who has them is an alco. Some people who are not alcos are 'dry drunks'. Some people who are total drunks are drunks without having the gene for it. So you can use genetics to look at the genetic nature of alcoholism, but once it's in teh cultural realm, it is only a very, very small part of the expression or explanation of that behaviour.

Ok, you got me there. It doesn't exist biologicaly. It only exists in the mind.

But if things that exist only in the mind are not real, then how can you explain psychology, which involves the study of the human mind? Do you lack belief in the existence of your own discipline?

Because it is an instinct. It's the same as saying that smiling is hardwired. Homosexuality is programed into some people, or heterosexuality - but not both! The gene doesn't give out two conflicting messages, only one is read. As soon as they find the gay gene I'm going to tattoo it all over my chest! I don't think bis or trannies are evil or anything, I just think that they are repressing homosexuality.

But the expression of smiling and crying and laughing are not due to instinct! I smile at things for a million different reasons. Smiling is an instinct, but the expression of the instinct is cultural, and you can't separate a smile from its context. And without its context, the smile doesn't exist, only the genetic code for smiling.

And what if I smile at something just to be polite? Is that an instinct? Is that me faking an instinct because I'm genetically predisposed to be polite? Is there a gene for politeness? Or I don't smile because it would be insulting to laugh at someone? I'm 'repressing' my smile but it doesn't mean that what I'm doing isn't real because it isn't driven by instinct.

The point I'm making about sexuality is that human sexuality is not only biological,and as such, it's not only the biological traits that influence it that are 'real'. Heterosexuality is no more 'real' than bisexuality or transgender. They are a mixture of genetics and culture and personal stuff and all that. The nature of desire is far too complex to be explained by a single message from a single gene.

I agree with all that. Yes, sexuality is filtered through culture - people repress their sexuality so they end up half gay/half straight. I was just giving examples of behaviours that are innate. Being gay is innate. Being straight is innate. Being bi isn't. It is conjured by the mind of the person repressing their feelings of lust for the same sex.

But this is what I'm talking about, your argument is based on an absolute adherence to a very small body of very limited genetic research that you are reading as if it can exist outside the realm of culture. And because of that, you are stating it as fact. I know a lot of queer people who would really tear those ideas to pieces, and some of them have PhDs. In essence, it doesn't matter if there is such a thing as a 'gay brain'. Human sexuality is a very fluid and changeable thing. What was deviant yesterday is normal today and vice versa, and so to suggest that a 'gay brain' has social meaning in its own right is quite dangerous. We give meaning to scientific data. There are biases in what is studied in the first place, and in how those results are read. And how they are applied is a totally different matter which leaves a 'gay splash' utterly meaningless in a society where sexuality is complex, diverse, and expressed through all sorts of different human interactions.

 

[jane]

"A soul? Who said anything about a soul? Your argument -- if it can be called one -- is predicated on the notion that humans have no free will. When presented with a situation, people have a range of choices as to how they can respond to it."

Why do you think I believe humans have no free will??



"So you don't believe humans have no free will"

That's not true.

But you argue that we can predict human behaviour if we know enough about neuropsychology. How would a laboratory study have real-world applications once you take free will into account?

"Well, then maybe you have a gay lecturer who wants to do you like a hawk. Have you checked his brain? Or maybe a female lecturer who wants you to love her for her lipstick. Check to see how much makeup she's wearing."

Stop making fun of me, it's really hurtful. I'm doing my best. I'm not evil. What I think shouldn't make you try to hurt me.

I think a lot of what you're saying is utterly absurd, and absurdity is difficult to take seriously.

And by the way, if you look at the thread, I'm among the few who have even bothered to engage with your arguments at all. Does it only hurt because most girls can't grasp abstract thought, as you so flippantly suggested?