DIY vs. Hardcore ? (1 Viewer)

[scrawlzine]

In reference to the recent discussions / arguments about band guarantees and hardcore vs. DIY etc. I found the thread regarding the 1 in 12 Club on Fracture forum interesting. Some good points amongst the shite, and some of it particularly relevant in the light of the recent closure of The Warzone Centre.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=136636&messageid=1068211085&lp=1068857417

The more I think about this subject, I think it might be pertinent to draw a distinction between "DIY" gigs and "promoter" gigs - no mater how small the profit margin may be. At the end of the day, anybody who attends a "full price" gig via promoters is economically supporting that method of doing things, (myself included). No one seems to bat an eyelid when its a "metal" band asking these prices, just bands associated with HC. I've personally attended countless "big" gigs with undoubtedly high band guarantees, but I've never fooled myself into thinking I was attending a DIY/non-profit orientated show and I'm sure most forum users are in the same position. The controversy arises when bands "grow out" of their supposedly DIY roots and start dealing through promoters /agents etc. Maybe we should also recognise that because a band may play in a "hardcore" style, their method of management is not necessarily the same. Obvious, but overlooked sometimes.

Anyway...food for thought.

 

[bohs punks]

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=136636&messageid=1068656000&lp=1068883812

theres thread on guarantees and the use of same as well

 

[mac warzonescum]

Unfortunately the discussion got completely and utterly derailed by certain people on their hobby-horses.

 

[Shorty]

Unfortunately the discussion got completely and utterly derailed by certain people on their hobby-horses.

Is that steve the same steve from this thread?

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=136636&messageid=1042158149&lp=1043690469

 

[needtokill]

In reference to the recent discussions / arguments about band guarantees and hardcore vs. DIY etc. I found the thread regarding the 1 in 12 Club on Fracture forum interesting. Some good points amongst the shite, and some of it particularly relevant in the light of the recent closure of The Warzone Centre.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=136636&messageid=1068211085&lp=1068857417

The more I think about this subject, I think it might be pertinent to draw a distinction between "DIY" gigs and "promoter" gigs - no mater how small the profit margin may be. At the end of the day, anybody who attends a "full price" gig via promoters is economically supporting that method of doing things, (myself included). No one seems to bat an eyelid when its a "metal" band asking these prices, just bands associated with HC. I've personally attended countless "big" gigs with undoubtedly high band guarantees, but I've never fooled myself into thinking I was attending a DIY/non-profit orientated show and I'm sure most forum users are in the same position. The controversy arises when bands "grow out" of their supposedly DIY roots and start dealing through promoters /agents etc. Maybe we should also recognise that because a band may play in a "hardcore" style, their method of management is not necessarily the same. Obvious, but overlooked sometimes.

Anyway...food for thought.

This is a very,very hard thing for me to admit:I know in the past I've been incredibly critical of people not doing things "DIY" or as punk as they can, I've spent hours arguing with people about tiny things, but I've been thinking a lot about this over the past few days, and after looking at a few threads on this board, I've come to the honest painful truth:

I actually don't give a shit anymore.
I really don't.

DIY is a fucking amazing thing.It makes perfect sense for me. But the more I think about it, the more I look through my record collection,think about gigs I've seen,how holier than thou I've been about things, it's finally, after 10 fucking years of being involved in this scene, hit me, that the only real difference between mainstream bands and DIY bands is that money isn't a primary concern for a lot (notice I say "a lot" -not all) of DIY bands.And musically, DIY bands, lets face, are better,heheh.But at this point ,maybe I am finally old and jaded, maybe it's the change in my circumstances (for some reason, when you get big ass, life-altering news like the shit me and Una have, you start to think about stuff a lot more, and it puts things in perspective a lot),realise that it really isn't that important to me any more who does what gigs,who gets what gaurantees,who is or isn't a knob (if you want to talk about bands who behave like rockstars or have massive egos, there are more than enough DIY bands I could name).

It does fuck me off when major bands like the MTV2 emo types, the short-haired-metallers-masquerading-as-hardcore types,(you all know who I'm talking about) are marketed as hardcore or talk about their DIY past.Thrice,Thursday,etc can fucking bite me.As can "DIY","Punk as Fuck" kids who criticise everyone who don't play by their rules suddenly start wearing t-shirts of said Kerrangutang "emo" bands.But the best band I've seen this year was TURBONEGRO.Would have been brilliant if it was DIY, but it wasn't.Doesn't make me like it any less.

the older I get, the more i feel that DIY/Punk/whatever is up to the individual.You decide what is and isn't right for you.I'm just sorry in a way I didn't realise that sooner, cos I'd like to think I'd maybe not have been such a twat over the past few years.

just wanted to get that off my chest.If I sound jaded or am a sellout for being honest, whatever.I don't really care to be honest.

 

[W.]

I actually don't give a shit anymore.
I really don't.

OMG!!!!111

 

[W.]

...talk about their DIY past.Thrice,Thursday,etc can fucking bite me.As can "DIY","Punk as Fuck" kids who criticise everyone who don't play by their rules suddenly start wearing t-shirts of said Kerrangutang "emo" bands.But the best band I've seen this year was TURBONEGRO.Would have been brilliant if it was DIY, but it wasn't.Doesn't make me like it any less.

the older I get, the more i feel that DIY/Punk/whatever is up to the individual.You decide what is and isn't right for you.I'm just sorry in a way I didn't realise that sooner, cos I'd like to think I'd maybe not have been such a twat over the past few years.

Well, im wearing a (stolen) Funeral for a Friend T-shirt so i guess this might in some way relate to me. Maybe those "kids" have rethought their position on diy/the scene/mtv2 and decided what parts are and aren't right for them.

 

[DeAd_KeV]

"DIY","Punk as Fuck" kids who criticise everyone who don't play by their rules suddenly start wearing t-shirts of said Kerrangutang "emo" bands.

sounds like you weeler.funeral for a freind indeed.

 

[mac warzonescum]

... who is or isn't a knob (if you want to talk about bands who behave like rockstars or have massive egos, there are more than enough DIY bands I could name)...

Stating the obvious here: working within the DIY scene is no excuse for being a knob. Don't work with them.

 

[W.]

sounds like you weeler.funeral for a freind indeed.

am i supposed to pretend i dont like a band because they're not diy?
I listen to plenty of DIY emo/crust/hc and all that jazz.
But what am I to do when i also find aphex twin, JT and all the corporate emo bands enticing?
Close my ears because they're not diy?
Would other punx do the same?



two words - Iron Maiden..

 

[mac warzonescum]

am i supposed to pretend i dont like a band because they're not diy?
I listen to plenty of DIY emo/crust/hc and all that jazz.
But what am I to do when i also find aphex twin, JT and all the corporate emo bands enticing?
Close my ears because they're not diy?

At the risk of advocating illegality (shock! horror!) on Eirecore: buy their records second hand, tape them off friends, use the net...

...'home taping is killing the music industry'

 

[W.]

I dont buy their records, I download them, nick them off my sister or they get donated by philanthropic shoplifters.

(sorry "i is john" couldn't make your name into a relevent pun)

 

[Cormcolash]

Fuckin right, you like Aphex Twin, amazing.

 

[oh shit]

This is a very,very hard thing for me to admit:I know in the past I've been incredibly critical of people not doing things "DIY" or as punk as they can, I've spent hours arguing with people about tiny things, but I've been thinking a lot about this over the past few days, and after looking at a few threads on this board, I've come to the honest painful truth:

I actually don't give a shit anymore.
I really don't.

DIY is a fucking amazing thing.It makes perfect sense for me. But the more I think about it, the more I look through my record collection,think about gigs I've seen,how holier than thou I've been about things, it's finally, after 10 fucking years of being involved in this scene, hit me, that the only real difference between mainstream bands and DIY bands is that money isn't a primary concern for a lot (notice I say "a lot" -not all) of DIY bands.And musically, DIY bands, lets face, are better,heheh.But at this point ,maybe I am finally old and jaded, maybe it's the change in my circumstances (for some reason, when you get big ass, life-altering news like the shit me and Una have, you start to think about stuff a lot more, and it puts things in perspective a lot),realise that it really isn't that important to me any more who does what gigs,who gets what gaurantees,who is or isn't a knob (if you want to talk about bands who behave like rockstars or have massive egos, there are more than enough DIY bands I could name).

It does fuck me off when major bands like the MTV2 emo types, the short-haired-metallers-masquerading-as-hardcore types,(you all know who I'm talking about) are marketed as hardcore or talk about their DIY past.Thrice,Thursday,etc can fucking bite me.As can "DIY","Punk as Fuck" kids who criticise everyone who don't play by their rules suddenly start wearing t-shirts of said Kerrangutang "emo" bands.But the best band I've seen this year was TURBONEGRO.Would have been brilliant if it was DIY, but it wasn't.Doesn't make me like it any less.

the older I get, the more i feel that DIY/Punk/whatever is up to the individual.You decide what is and isn't right for you.I'm just sorry in a way I didn't realise that sooner, cos I'd like to think I'd maybe not have been such a twat over the past few years.

just wanted to get that off my chest.If I sound jaded or am a sellout for being honest, whatever.I don't really care to be honest.

kinda had a similar thing with los cabras. i didn't personally want to play the gigs we were getting, other members did. in the end the whole thing kinda grinded slowly to a halt because of this fundamental difference in attitude, but that doesn't mean i think any less of my friends who i was in the band with for nine months. just meant it didn't work.

its not a great idea to impose one's morals onto other people... unless its a passive kind of thing... to a point anyway. least that's what i think. damn political philosophy has my head fried these days.

 

[the strange guy]

I would have shoplifted my Depeche Mode DVD, but I had to have it sent in especially from London. It's brilliant. Dave Gahan would beat the shit out of Justin, turn his bird on to smack and then OD after fucking the two of them. He's the best.

But sadly, he isn't DIY.

 

[Cormcolash]

Indeed this is true.

 

[the strange guy]

Who else has some un-punk heroes? Brian Harvey from E17 was another favourite. Telling kids that taking 12 pills a night won't fuck you up. I got up to 4 and thought I was going to die. What a funny bastard!

 

[spuded]

jesus oly will ya stop with the depeche mode, 'violator' (spelling) was good but c'mon now.


anyhoo i only have three idols in the world, Woody Allen, Joey Ramone & Iggy Pop, well two now i guess. E17 were the only boy band i ever had a spot for, i was always very excited cause a cousin of mine went to school with them, so ya know i practically new em o so everyone in school thought.
Actually stranegly i had another girl convinced once i was related to Dec ffrom Ant & Dec fame, but that was back when they were Pj & Duncan. It never clicked in my head that she loved PJ & Duncan and thought i looked like Duncan i really should have had a shot, but i was 13 and drinking as many cans as panda shandy as i could was my objective, mm 0.5% alcohol. Oh those unfortunate early pubescent emo moments, tut tut, they shape you the do, sniffle, im of to write another zine...

bet it's better than helium bong, mm hey where is that guy now, i heard he just sits in his gaff smoking crack and gettin fat...tut tut tut...time has been harsh my friend.

 

[the strange guy]

Let's never speak of helium bong again.

 

[spuded]

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HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG,

HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG,

HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG, HELIUM BONG.