Depression [Aware Helpline 1890 303 302] (2 Viewers)

[Cryptid]

psychiatrists are drug pushers, there's no art to it.

Well said. That's absolutely true. My shrink said I'd need gene therapy to get off meds. He must have thought I was stupider than I look. I just reduced them really slowly. There's schedules on d'internet of how to do it. I think that SSRIs, unlike 'major' tranquilisers, can help people to overcome whatever it is that's causing them depression, and so I wouldn't rule out ever getting off them. They're considered to delay orgasm in males, so that's a plus.

This is a good read about re nooly's post: http://www.szasz.com/

 

[Super Dexta]

i used swap around between citalopram and cipramil without a care in the world. well, apart from the depression.

i still don't know if they helped or if it was changing circumstances in my life that did it.

 

[Juno]

Was it Citalopram, or something the doctor was trying to get you to take? I had the pharmacist try to get me to get those instead of the Cipramil prescribed, because it was cheaper (he knew I was a student), I wasn't particularly happy with him for suggesting it, presumably he's not quite as qualified as the person who prescribed them.

Citalopram and Cipramil are the same drug. Cipramil is a brand name. Drugs lose their patent after 20 (I think) years and cheaper, generic versions then come on the market. They contain the exact same formulation. The patent for Cipramil expired a few years ago so that's why you'll sometimes be given a different brand of Citalopram by a pharmacist than what's on the doctor's prescription.

 

[FiFi_LaRue]

Oh I know that they're the same, but I'd have preferred if he just gave me what was on the 'script.

 

[Juno]

Fair 'nuff

 

[BC]

So I seem to have this weird mix of depression and anxiety. Beta blockers, anti depressants or both?

the afforementioned cipramil / citalopram is the (SSRI)anti-depressant most often used in treatment of anxiety, i'll mention more about that later on.

beta-blockers are used for treatment of anxiety, but only in more extreme cases. its effective because it is quite physically powerful : it basically slows down the heart's beating. this leads to physical aspects of accute anxiety not occuring, since the heart cannot speed up, but it also can cause side effects such as being unable to run, again since the heart cant speed up. as far as i am aware, beta-blockers should only be used as a very short term attempt to "break the cycle" of anxiety.

likewise, benzodiazapiem tranquilizers such as xanax (alprozolam) are also perscribed for anxiety. however, one should be aware that while these drugs work fantastically well for imparting an instant sense of calm, they are as a result highly addictive. however, i will be the first to say in many cases these drugs can well be a life saver to many people, but they should be used with caution, especially considering those doctors who are quite quick to perscribe sedatives for extended periods. legal addicts to valium weren't just a phenomenon of the sixties, there are many people now addicted to persciption drugs in exactly the same way, due to lazy doctors. i'll come back on this topic of doctors in a while, since i do think it's an important one.

one point : why jump straight for medication as the primary treatment for these problems? now, i'm not going to go on a hypocritical ignorant rant about how "persciption drugs are all baaaad, maaaan", because i know - as i said above - that they have been immensely helpful and literally life-saving to many people. there is absolutely no shame whatsoever in having to use medication : if one has a broken leg then one would be foolish to avoid painkillers. but i think in the treatment of depression and anxiety, medication should only be used as one prong, alongside others which address the thought processes, of the approach.
address the non-chemical side of it as well : cognative behavioural therapy (CBT) is very effective, it trains the mind to break out of negative thought cycles. another highly effective form of treatment for some people is neuro-linguistic programming (NLP), however since it is at the moment an unregulated discipline one should spend a bit of time looking for good therapists, and one should treat the fantastic claims made some of its more enthuasiastic proponents with a pinch of salt.

I hate the feeling that things are never going to be right again. And keeping busy all the time has actually just made things a little worse.

but i can assure you things will be right again. of course, a year ago you were doing different things, thinking different thoughts and in a different mood... and five years ago, well things were all different then! and ten years ago, its almost like you were another person things were so so different. there is a term in linguistics : a "nominalisation". which is when something that is a process gets turned into an object. its a distortion of perception, we might talk about "happiness" or "confidence" or "motivation" like these are objects but they are not, they are processes. moods cannot be static. we couldn't be happy all the time because then happiness would be meaningless, and its just the same with sadness or anxiety. and of course, the fact that you know what words like "happy" and "relaxed" mean, and that you have memories, images, sounds and feelings in your mind associated with them, then you have felt that way before and you will feel it again. in fact, whats interesting is that if you pick a memory of a time you felt totally relaxed, and in your imagination you see what you saw at the time, and you make the picture in your mind big and bright, and you imagine the sounds you heard at the time really clearly, you will find that you get some of the feelings you had at the time back. this simple visualisation exercise shows that you can and will feel that way again. it does work, i've seen lots of people do it the wrong way : it's how people develop phobias and post-traumatic stress disorder, but it can also be used for the good things. your body is controlled by your mind and you control your mind alot more than you might think now. think of moods like the weather, bad weather comes and its shit, but it passes, good weather comes and its great and it passes, cos if it didnt pass we wouldn't enjoy it so much.

back to the subjects SSRI antidepressants and doctors:

antidepressants are fucking horrible...i was on them for a while and they just gave me insomnia and made me feel shit, and theyre really expensive

I used to take an antidepressant (SSRI) for a few years. Overall, I found it really good. I used to have that "the feeling that things are never going to be right again." It's a horrible feeling alright. If you haven't already, I'd recommend going to the doc. You don't have to take on board what they say, but it would be good to get it out into the open and they might have some good advice.

both excellent posts with valid and important information. individual people respond to these drugs in individual ways. i personally am rather ambivalent about antidepressants and psychiatric drugs in general. i am aware that many find them hugely helpful, and other find them unpleasant.

a major irish trait of the past which still persists today is seeing doctors as people we shouldn't question, they write the script, and we take the pills and do what they say.

when it comes to prescription psychiatic drugs, far more than SSRIs, i am hugely concerned by the trend to dish out the anti-psychotic olanzapine (an absolutely horrific drug in my view) in cases where it is absolutely not required. i know people who were prescribed it for panic attacks!

i say : ask questions. and if you dont like what something they have perscribed you is doing, tell them. if your doctor doesn't like this, get a new one. you need honesty and decent communication with your doctor and if you aren't getting that, drop them.

That's absolutely true. My shrink said I'd need gene therapy to get off meds. He must have thought I was stupider than I look. I just reduced them really slowly. There's schedules on d'internet of how to do it. I think that SSRIs, unlike 'major' tranquilisers, can help people to overcome whatever it is that's causing them depression, and so I wouldn't rule out ever getting off them.

another important point, if you are going to come off SSRIs, it must be done very gradually.

They're considered to delay orgasm in males, so that's a plus.

ehh, not really. cipramil / citalopram among the SSRIs is notorious for greatly diminishing sex drive for many people, male and female. it may delay orgasm for some men, but it also reduces the interest in and desire for orgasm in many men and women.

 

[Cryptid]

ehh, not really. cipramil / citalopram among the SSRIs is notorious for greatly diminishing sex drive for many people, male and female. it may delay orgasm for some men, but it also reduces the interest in and desire for orgasm in many men and women.

I heard that on the radio one day, honestly! Probably a load of shite though.

 

[theweeyin]

I am so glad that this forum is here.

Hurrah for Pete for not being a self-absorbed, paranoid android

 

[Reets]

I am so glad that this forum is here.

Hurrah for Pete for not being a self-absorbed, paranoid android

Yep, I second that, it's helped to know i'm not fucked up for feeling like i do.
Pete=.|..|


and everyone that has posted here too

 

[Wobbler]

Pete, lock this thread

 

[Green Goblin]

How does this thread exist. Surely it should be locked and the participants told to "Helpfully" go fuck themselves.

 

[madame swankee]

i say : ask questions. and if you dont like what something they have perscribed you is doing, tell them. if your doctor doesn't like this, get a new one. you need honesty and decent communication with your doctor and if you aren't getting that, drop them.

Is there a list or resource for decent/recommended psychiatrists /CBT therapists out there? within the private and the local services.
It seems quite easy to 'drop them' but it seems to be quite a challenge to find the one you are comfortable with. Is it a case of trial and error each time? that seems like it could be very unstable and frustrating for the person needing answers and help. Thanks, and great advice Brian

 

[BC]

Is there a list or resource for decent/recommended psychiatrists /CBT therapists out there? within the private and the local services.

i don't know offhand, but i just did a google search and found this website : http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/
which has a list.
i have also heard some good things about the psychiatry department of st. vincents in dublin, but i'm afraid i really have little knowledge of about any particular therapists (i haven't had any personal experience of therapy myself, i do have an interest in various methods of therapy and know of the experience of others, but i'm afraid that's the knowledge that i am limited to. if i do hear of any especially recommended therapists in ireland, i will post so here. perhaps anyone with experience of good therapists could post here - or if, quite understandably, privacy is prefered - they could PM you? i did recall seeing some recommendations at one point on the personal issues sections of boards.ie [yes, i'm still addicted to reading that! ;-) ] but unfortunately the search function seems to be disabled in that section - and before anyone starts, no, i really do not think that this is a thread to complain about that website in)

It seems quite easy to 'drop them' but it seems to be quite a challenge to find the one you are comfortable with. Is it a case of trial and error each time? that seems like it could be very unstable and frustrating for the person needing answers and help.

well, i mentioned being willing to ask questions and to - obviously reasonably! - assert one's self to doctors principally for people who may be concerned about / unfamiliar with medication. i certainly don't want to sound as if i am suggesting people drop their therapists over trival issues, or that i am of some kind of "medication is bad" opinion (i most certainly am not), it is instead just about reminding people that one should certainly ask your doctor questions about any methods being used if one is in anyway uncertain or uncomfortable with them.

Thanks, and great advice Brian

you are most welcome, all the very best

 

[Reets]

Is there a list or resource for decent/recommended psychiatrists /CBT therapists out there? within the private and the local services.
It seems quite easy to 'drop them' but it seems to be quite a challenge to find the one you are comfortable with. Is it a case of trial and error each time? that seems like it could be very unstable and frustrating for the person needing answers and help. Thanks, and great advice Brian

Your GP should have a list of who provides these services in your local area, they can send you as a referral, that way you should be seen earlier.
Also your local community health centre usually provides this too, i think as its a health service thing it should be cheaper, if not they sometimes subsidies counsellors/therapists in the area, you pay what you can afford and the rest is covered by them.
If you can, try not to have too many preconceived ideas about how long it's going to take till you feel better, everyone reacts differently and has had different experiences that led to going in the first place.
Google any meds you've been given, its important to feel comfortable about what you're putting in your body.
Also you might want to be aware that doctors in Ireland over prescribe anti anxiety and anti depressants
I was told to accept the fact that most likely I'd be on meds the rest of my life but after a lot of hard work, I'm off them over a year and finished therapy now too (stupidly made a joke about wanting a certifiably Sane certificate in my last session, she made me come back the next week for that ) and happier then I've been in years.
There's still bad patches but you'll learn how better to deal with these, I've learned to know when I'm heading downwards again and how to control it, something i never could have done with medication alone.
Don't know if any of this helps, but the sooner you get help, the sooner things will start getting better.

 

[Green Goblin]

I really think I've had about enough of people right now.

I'm trying to find a psychologist in Cork but the aspergers people haven't gotten back to me, I went to the doctor about it but I'm on some crazy waiting list.

This country sucks for support.

 

[Reets]

I really think I've had about enough of people right now.

I'm trying to find a psychologist in Cork but the aspergers people haven't gotten back to me, I went to the doctor about it but I'm on some crazy waiting list.

This country sucks for support.

Keep pushing them till they get back to you, if this means ringing every day then so be it. Is there a support group in any of the surrounding areas?

 

[FiFi_LaRue]

Keep pushing them till they get back to you, if this means ringing every day then so be it.

Agreed, unfortunately you have to chase people to get support, they're not going to chase you.

 

[jonah]

thrawling through this thread for the last three hours has helped somewhat with what i have come to call my impending classic narcissism. i always know its coming because i stop sleeping at night and persist in staying up as long as possible even though im so tired i could collapse. inversely then is the refusing to get out of bed. its going to be a horror, i can feel it in my bones.

but the thread helped, thanks guys. i remember i was on a forum when i was a teenager where all threads about depression, self harm and suicide awareness were banned. a pretty official forum too, an absolute farce.

 

[Clementine]

hey, any advice for coming off ssri meds? even doing it under medical supervision the lexapro withdrawals are proving a right bitch, any advice to lessen the symptoms? mainly vertigo and dizziness. don't really want to take yet more chemicals to counteract though.

 

[Cryptid]

hey, any advice for coming off ssri meds? even doing it under medical supervision the lexapro withdrawals are proving a right bitch, any advice to lessen the symptoms? mainly vertigo and dizziness. don't really want to take yet more chemicals to counteract though.

Know the feeling. What I did was skip every 6th or so intake until I was comfortable with that. Then I moved it down progressively until I was skipping every 2nd intake. Then missing two intakes but taking the third until that was ok and then when missing three intakes and so on.

I've heard that because of their long "half life" that it's not really a runner to stop taking them (SSRIs) abruptly.

Fair play to you and good luck with it.