Champions League 2012-2013 thread (2 Viewers)

[washingcattle]

You're right about them looking a bit lost without Zlat. Which is surprising the amount of money spent on them. Thiago Silva, Lavezzi and Pastore were good at Milan, Napoli and Palermo before their move, and van der Wiel was quite the hot property a couple of years ago. I rate Carlo as a coach as well.

Thought Moura was good in the first leg though.

Barring a miracle in Munich next week my current favoured teams to win the lot are Dortmund and then Juve, everyone else can go die in fires.

PSG have a lot of quality, especially in midfield but no wingers and weak at the back. I do not see what people see in Alex. Their keeper was woeful tonight. Put simply, If Fellani had had a go at them tonight we'd have destroyed them. Can't see them winning it. Zlat's out for the next leg so if that's in Paris they are out.

Could be 3 german sides 2 Italians 1 Spanish 1 Portuguese and 1 French heading through at the moment. It's a wake up call for the brits anyway.

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

Celtic would have got something from that game if the referee had the balls and sense to properly penalize Juventus for all their cheating on corners. Lichtsteiner should have been off the pitch, and Scott Brown should have been awarded a penalty (he was being fouled when the ball was in play).
Instead, the referee does nothing, and two minutes after the Brown incident, Juve go up the pitch and win the game.
Basically, Celtic are out of the Champions League again due to an awful referee.

Edit: Well, I say out - who knows, they might go and win 3-0 in Turin? Wouldn't be the biggest surprise considering how much domination they had for the majority of the game tonight.

Ha! You know, obstructing the keeper is also a foul. And as the ref was doing nothing about it, it comes down to street justice. Could have given a yellow to Hooper first, or then later give yellows (or second yellows as once this was done already) when it goes into a tugwar. There was a Padoin shirt grab that was the only penalty worthy claim for Celtic, but even that is something that often does not get called, so nothing to get all righteous about.

5-0 on aggregate, refs fault!

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

Things to note - last 5 matches in CL, goal difference 13-0 for juve.

The second thing,

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[washingcattle]

It's some record but in CL history very few teams win it without losing a tie or a group match along the way. Sometimes with teams with records that impressive you think what will they do when they're up against it? Even then I can't see Juve cracking but really they haven't played any really top side yet. Shaktar were excellent but the top seed in there group were Chelski who were fucking abysmal.

If you were to pick a final at this stage it would be either Bayern or Dortmund vs Juve or Real, Attack versus counter attack. That might end up being the semi final line up. It might end up 10-9 in each match. Mouth watering isn't it ?

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

Dortmund vs Juve would be a dream final for sure.

I still don't know if Juve can be found out by a team like Bayern or Real (actually I think Manu would have been worse for Juve than Real) because of the gap in individual skills, but in my head the odds for Juve to be able to hold their own against anybody are pretty high. There's been a lot of talk about a missing "top player" in the strike force, but the goals can come from anywhere on the pitch and someone like Vidal can decide games even when injured (vs Chelsea), so that should not be a problem if tactics and fitness are nailed.

 

[washingcattle]

Dortmund vs Juve would be a dream final for sure.

I still don't know if Juve can be found out by a team like Bayern or Real (actually I think Manu would have been worse for Juve than Real) because of the gap in individual skills, but in my head the odds for Juve to be able to hold their own against anybody are pretty high. There's been a lot of talk about a missing "top player" in the strike force, but the goals can come from anywhere on the pitch and someone like Vidal can decide games even when injured (vs Chelsea), so that should not be a problem if tactics and fitness are nailed.

United would have been a nasty one alright, Milan too on the basis that they can both defend. The missing player up front is a pan-Italian problem. Every striker they have is mental. If it's not Ballotelli it's Cassano. For Juve Quaglierella and Vucinic aren't clinical enough and Giovinco isn't imposing enough. That can be the difference at that level. See Didier Drogba or Mario Gomez last season for example.
Thinking about it makes me ill, Chelski managed something like 30 shots against Barcelona and Bayern and scored 4 times, Barca and Bayern had over 100 and scored 3.

 

[Cormcolash]

Ha! You know, obstructing the keeper is also a foul. And as the ref was doing nothing about it, it comes down to street justice.

You obviously don't have a clue what you're on about. It is 100% allowed to stand in front of a goalkeeper on a corner or free-kick. There is nothing wrong with it at all, and lots of players do it. Ask Hector Gray sure.
On the other hand, it is 100% illegal to put both your arms around a player that is standing in front of the goalkeeper, and try to push him away. That is what is known as 'cheating'.

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

You obviously don't have a clue what you're on about. It is 100% allowed to stand in front of a goalkeeper on a corner or free-kick. There is nothing wrong with it at all, and lots of players do it. Ask Hector Gray sure.
On the other hand, it is 100% illegal to put both your arms around a player that is standing in front of the goalkeeper, and try to push him away. That is what is known as 'cheating'.

Whatever man. The thing is, it is not allowed to obstruct the keepers movement. It's in the rules. So if you stand two inches from the keepers face, you are likely going to be fouling. And if you are defending a corner, ref does nothing about it, you better do something about it. In this case it was mostly Lichtsteiner choosing to stand two inches from Hoopers face in the same way he tried to stand in Buffons face. Inevitable follows - contact, both tugging and pulling.

Of course Brits and Celtic fans see only Hooper being pushed around when he just "chose to stand in that one spot". The naivety is boggling.

 

[washingcattle]

There's nothing in the rules about standing in front of the goalkeeper but it definitely was frowned upon. Andy Gray started it during the 80s and he was regularly called a cunt by everyone in football. Now that everyone is blatantly cheating you can't expect players to give two shits about having decent manners really.

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

There's nothing in the rules about standing in front of the goalkeeper but it definitely was frowned upon. Andy Gray started it during the 80s and he was regularly called a cunt by everyone in football. Now that everyone is blatantly cheating you can't expect players to give two shits about having decent manners really.

it is an offense to restrict the movement of the goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him, e.g., at the taking of a corner kick (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12-en.pdf)

say if you put three/four guys standing around the GK so that to move he would have to "foul", wouldn't that be the best tactic a team could have? unless, of course, unfairly impeding the GK would be a foul....

I think the Celtic fans are trying to say that Hooper had the right to choose where to stand (an inch from Buffon), but Lichtsteiner did not have the same right with Hooper for some reason. When the movement and shuffle begins, all blame is projected to Lichtsteiner. And none of this is questioned because of the ridiculous righteous brigade led by Lennon so typical of the quasi-xenophobic mainstream british football discourse. The eye talians up to stuff again. Yawn.

 

[maims bond]

So, what the fuck is gonna happen tonight between Barca and Milan? I don't go along with a lot of the Barca hate, i'm 33 years old and they've played the most exhilarating football i've ever witnessed. I really hope they do Milan tonight but i've a sinking feeling Milan will sneak a first half goal and it'll all be over.

C'mon Messi!!!!!!!!

 

[washingcattle]

it is an offense to restrict the movement of the goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him, e.g., at the taking of a corner kick (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12-en.pdf)

say if you put three/four guys standing around the GK so that to move he would have to "foul", wouldn't that be the best tactic a team could have? unless, of course, unfairly impeding the GK would be a foul....

I think the Celtic fans are trying to say that Hooper had the right to choose where to stand (an inch from Buffon), but Lichtsteiner did not have the same right with Hooper for some reason. When the movement and shuffle begins, all blame is projected to Lichtsteiner. And none of this is questioned because of the ridiculous righteous brigade led by Lennon so typical of the quasi-xenophobic mainstream british football discourse. The eye talians up to stuff again. Yawn.

• It is an offence to restrict the movement of the goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him, e.g. at the taking of a corner kick

Well there's your problem for a start what the fuck does that mean ? Hold him ? stand in front of him ? That's fifas directive and it's as wishy washy as fuck.

I agree in part with you, it was ridiculous that after not getting a penalty in the first 45 minutes Celtic continued to look for one with the same tactic for 45 minutes, Like I said earlier it didn't matter a fucking jot because Celtics delivery from set pieces was so bad that they never caused a problem for Bouffon or for the ref anyway. The best way to get a penalty from those situations is to put the ball right in the mixer and force the ref to give something, the other option is to put the ball in there and if the ref doesn't give anything you can still force a goal out of in in the chaos. Celtic didn't manage it at all.

On the other hand Hooper didn't do anything wrong he's perfectly entitled to stand where he likes. Lichstiener literally threw him to the floor in the second half and that is a penalty no matter which way you look at it.

So, what the fuck is gonna happen tonight between Barca and Milan? I don't go along with a lot of the Barca hate, i'm 33 years old and they've played the most exhilarating football i've ever witnessed. I really hope they do Milan tonight but i've a sinking feeling Milan will sneak a first half goal and it'll all be over.

C'mon Messi!!!!!!!!

They've also played some of the most boring football I've ever seen, they fail to adapt in games and they can't defend to save their lives. I don't like tiki taka but I hate the fact that so many supposedly impartial journalists and pundits want so desperately to say "Barcelona are the best side in the world" that they treat every side they play as though they are some how less deserving of a result. 2009-2011 they were great to watch. It seems a lot of teams have caught up with them now and the games have stagnated. Inter and AC beat them at the San Siro by playing to their strengths and playing a kind of football that Barca simply can't play. It was hugely exhillerating to me. The way the commentators go on about it you'd swear the Milan midfield dragged Messi down a lane and raped him. It's AC fucking Milan they've won the CL 7 fucking times and are one of the greatest clubs on the planet. Surely they're deserving of a bit more respect ? That's what really gets me about Barca. There's also the fact that they're bad losers and play actors.

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

I agree in part with you, it was ridiculous that after not getting a penalty in the first 45 minutes Celtic continued to look for one with the same tactic for 45 minutes, Like I said earlier it didn't matter a fucking jot because Celtics delivery from set pieces was so bad that they never caused a problem for Bouffon or for the ref anyway. The best way to get a penalty from those situations is to put the ball right in the mixer and force the ref to give something, the other option is to put the ball in there and if the ref doesn't give anything you can still force a goal out of in in the chaos. Celtic didn't manage it at all.

On the other hand Hooper didn't do anything wrong he's perfectly entitled to stand where he likes. Lichstiener literally threw him to the floor in the second half and that is a penalty no matter which way you look at it.

You cannot give a penalty when the ball is not in play. Also as the FIFA rules state, if he is unfairly impeding the goalkeeper, it is a foul - so not always "perfectly entitled to stand where he likes". It was very obvious to me that he chose to stand in a place to impede the movement of Buffon. For all Celtic fans he seems to have just practiced some universal right that does not exist in FIFA rules.

Cards were given out to Lichtsteiner and Hooper on one occasion on the corner shenanigans - I'm sure if more cards were given they would have been given to both also and therefore resulting in even numbers on the pitch. Lichtsteiner chose to also stand in that same spot, and do you know what happens when two people choose to stand in the same spot? Tugging and pulling, both ways. I find it very partial of you to say that "Hooper didn't do anything wrong". There's even a gif of when he stamps on Lichtsteiners foot (I guess this is "choosing to stand where he likes", eh?) and Lichtsteiner pushes him off, ending up in a dramatic Hooper fall. If that fall was done by an Italian it would be still talked about in threads like these. But instead, "Hooper didn't do anything wrong".

There was one shirt grab by Padoin in the box which looked like a penalty. Maybe ref was wrong or saw something we didn't, who knows. These happen in about every match though, so I doubt that warrants a lot of whining. ONE incident that didn't fall into the category of the quoted rule from FIFA. ONE.

Celtic manager and fans are some of the whiniest I have witnessed.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Come on now lads,how often do football fans admit their team behaved incorrectly?

 

[Dktr. Faustus]

Or read the rules!?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Well,yes,that too.

 

[washingcattle]

Flamini in for Muntari, Villa in for Fabregas and Xavi is fit. I don't like the looks of this.

 

[washingcattle]

You cannot give a penalty when the ball is not in play. Also as the FIFA rules state, if he is unfairly impeding the goalkeeper, it is a foul - so not always "perfectly entitled to stand where he likes". It was very obvious to me that he chose to stand in a place to impede the movement of Buffon. For all Celtic fans he seems to have just practiced some universal right that does not exist in FIFA rules.

Cards were given out to Lichtsteiner and Hooper on one occasion on the corner shenanigans - I'm sure if more cards were given they would have been given to both also and therefore resulting in even numbers on the pitch. Lichtsteiner chose to also stand in that same spot, and do you know what happens when two people choose to stand in the same spot? Tugging and pulling, both ways. I find it very partial of you to say that "Hooper didn't do anything wrong". There's even a gif of when he stamps on Lichtsteiners foot (I guess this is "choosing to stand where he likes", eh?) and Lichtsteiner pushes him off, ending up in a dramatic Hooper fall. If that fall was done by an Italian it would be still talked about in threads like these. But instead, "Hooper didn't do anything wrong".

There was one shirt grab by Padoin in the box which looked like a penalty. Maybe ref was wrong or saw something we didn't, who knows. These happen in about every match though, so I doubt that warrants a lot of whining. ONE incident that didn't fall into the category of the quoted rule from FIFA. ONE.

Celtic manager and fans are some of the whiniest I have witnessed.

The FIFA directive is nonsense. You could interpret it as every time the goalkeeper moves you have to get out of his way. It's bollox.

Like I said Celtic fans are entitled to feel agrieved but they should be more agrieved that they only put a decent ball in the box once and Ambrose made a hash of it. That's been my point all along.

 

[Unicron]

Barca aren't messing about tonight. More incisive than they've been in a while.

 

[washingcattle]

Villa in for Fabregas is the huge difference. With him in the side Milan have to look over their shoulders. He is always on the last man and that's the big difference. Flamini isn't up to it either.