animal rights and punk ? (1 Viewer)

[subbuteo !]

recently ive been thinking a bit about animal welfare etc.
over the last few years ive seen alot of veggies and even vegans
go back to eating meat for many different reasons.talking to someone recently
and they were saying its funny how interest in animal rights etc seems to have dropped a lot
in punk. im not sure this is true as from what i see in many place say like spain where it didn't ever seem to be a part of punk it is now quite popular and in poland as well from my limited experience.also with even some oi or strret punk bands having animal rights songs. when i was younger a lot of punks were into hunt sabs or the like and from talking to old punks again it was very important and still is to them. of course there is lots of meat eating punks and always has been as well. with people dropping like flies is it something people only did because it was what everyone was doing?
(not judging anyone.i couldn't care what anyone else shoves in their gob.what ya eat isn't the sum of the person)

so im just wondering whats the state of play with younger punks in ireland say people under 25. does it come into punk for you?is it something people even accosiate with punk? or drew people to punk in the first place. is it something ya don't care about?anyone active in animals welfare groups or the like.is it a "first world problem"

i guess like a lot of things in life, in punk things go in cycles.

..roll on the crap meat jokes and trolls.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

I always thought it was funny that those sporting anti vivisection and go vegan patches were the same heads who insisted on bringing dogs to venues/gigs etc.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

Also, I think it'd be fair to say that a lot of people probably got into vegetarianism because it was the thing for a young punk to do..."you have the patches, you have the hair cut now have the diet" kind of thing.

My two cents...

 

[subbuteo !]

yeah dogs at venues etc is an a ould pet(pardon the pun) hate of mine.not such a problem in ireland i guess.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

Hitting euro squat gigs with "No Dogs, No Hamsters" on the posters was refreshing though.

 

[JenFast]

I think (some) people do go veggie, like you suggested because it seems like the thing to do... and yeah, patches, haircut = full package.
Maybe some people, genuinley just think, fuckit! and go back to eating meat. Im the same, I don't care what ya shove in yer gob, and regardless of punk, amongst other generes of music, I have an interest in animal rights and vegetarianism anyway, for me the two don't come as a package, as im sure is the same with many others, or not.
I know people, who have left the veggie lifestlye, who even admitted themselves, they just went veggie cos it seemed to the thing to do when you are (punk) or hang out with other vegetarians.
Maybe for some its just something else to be righteous about?

And perhaps theres another angle, maybe some people no longer see the point in it, i.e I can understand how some people would feel, how cutting out meat, etc, is not changing anything...? maybe, I dunno.
I don't think that you need to bang on about animal rights to make a point of feeling strongly about it, maybe people eventually get fed up banging on about it. When you can only do what yer able to, adopt a pet, change your diet, have an open heart once in a while toward a hungry stray, or donate some euro's to a local charity. All personal choices, punk or no punk. (I knwo you are referring to the punk scene, sorry gone on a small tangent)
But more to the main article, if you do something to be part of a click, or because you feel you should, you will inevitably lose interest or fail at it. Not necessarily, but quite likely.
Thats my input, its prob gone right off point though,as usual. !gloat

 

[subbuteo !]

nah. on point.

 

[Space]

For me the realisation that we've fucked the world beyond repair, at least in terms of human survival, led me to think I was having such little affect on prolonging the process by not eating meat that to continue would be pointless. But then my decision to stop eating meat in the first place was based a lot more on ecological grounds than animal welfare grounds.

These days my philosophy is to stop worrying and just enjoy myself while trying make life a bit better for the people around me.

I say the synopsis' made in the thread are bang on for the majority though.

 

[pete]

sellouts

 

[JenFast]

also, meant to say this too
Even though for me I don't associate animal welfare interests/vegen/veggie lifestlye with punk as such.... It is definately a doorway into it. What I mean is, I always had interests in animal rights, and such issues etc, But I was not vegetarian until I became friends with alot of other vegetarians/vegans when I started going to gigs, and for me that really was not because I felt its what everyone else was doing, it was a stepping stone in regards to meeting vegetarians and like minds, and feeling at home, so to speak, to have friends who shared my interests (I hope this all makes sense)
Now, I know this is gonna most probably come out the wrong way (surprise surprise) but I would tend to associate animal welfare/rights/ vegetarian diet with diy crust/punk/hardcore gigs thet I would to other punk gigs such as spikey oi, all wearing leather gigs... Not saying people who wear leather can't be vegetarian, lots and lots of people are. And I know thats an (unintended)generlisation from me, but thats just the way on paper (so to speak) it looks, I know thats not the case, but I suppose the vast majority of vegetarians in the (punk) scene so to speak would be that of a DIY punk background /interest (?) I know that has come out possibly not the way I mean it in my head, I hope ya get what im saying...No im not saying if you have spikes you have no interest in these issues, or if you don a leather jacket your a (fake) or cannot be a vegetarian, I just mean, there are many variations of punk and I tend, to associate veggie/animal issues with certain punks over others. But alot of that too is down to assuming what /who someone by their style, you see someone with dreads and patched clothes and they could be heading in mac donalds to chomp down on a burger.... which is just as fine as them chomping down on a celery stick but it is an assumption many make, because of the way you dress. Im not saying that I think that, nor am I saying even anyone else does, but maybe some would, maybe, maybe im wrong. I dunno.

 

[drogcharge]

still very relevant to me since listening to bands like confict back in the 80s and reading info sheets on records.im probably not as militant as i used to be,but in my view thats a good thing.im not goin to start shouting at someone for eating a burger or push someone into a river for fishing these days(not that i would have done that but you get me drift).for someone who goes out and kills lets say a rabbit and eats it i dont see anything wrong with these days(not for me).most people dont though and eat some of the most unhealtiest(steroid)ridden shit churned out by the meat industry.there lies the biggest problem ,people have to be educated more on what they are actually eating.but they have to want to know.thats what i think.up the veggie punx.

 

[therealjohnny]

Happy Christmas...you monsters

 

[Squiggle]

someone who goes out and kills lets say a rabbit and eats it i dont see anything wrong with these days(not for me).most people dont though and eat some of the most unhealtiest(steroid)ridden shit churned out by the meat industry.there lies the biggest problem ,people have to be educated more on what they are actually eating.but they have to want to know.thats what i think.up the veggie punx.

Yes, people need to ensure that they're educated about what they're eating... and that includes you While what you've said about the meat industry might be relevant in the US and other parts of the world it is not relevant here in Ireland. Use of steroids in meat production is illegal here. Battery farming does not exist here in the way that it does in other countries (except maybe chicken, but free range chicken is easily and readily available). Irish produced food is among some of the best and highest quality in the world. And there are more chemicals allowed on the fruit and veg you buy in the supermarket than there are in the meat.

Regarding animal welfare... if we're not going to eat them then what do we do with them? Kill all male calves at birth and cremate them? Kill all cattle and stop consuming dairy too? They don't make good pets and feral cattle would pose a serious risk to motorists, walkers, cyclists and other members of the general public.

 

[subbuteo !]

I say the synopsis' made in the thread are bang on for the majority though.

im guessing the synopsis been that people a lot of people only got/get into it in punk as it seem to be thing to do?

(again not judging anyone)
but thinking on it the fact that most of the people i was thinking about going back to the meat did so around the same time they stopped playing in punk bands and generally going to punk gigs etc so i guess there is some truth in it .that said lots of people i know that also stopped with that side of things very much brought the more political/animal rights side of things with them as well.
and there is also a majority of people(in my circle of reach) who were veggie/vegan staying that way.

but if that synopsis holds some truth it has to make ya think what other elements of (tongue firmly in cheek)punk morals/politics etc
people are only into for show.

i wonder in the general population of non punk veggies etc how many go back to the meat and around what age etc would be of relevance to this also.is it people's priorities changing.people been burned out etc.


but jenny's point about meeting like minded people etc also plays apart in that i guess.
i was also into the animal stuff before i really got into to the punk stuff and the connection there was defintely one of the atractions of punk for me in the early days.

 

[therealjohnny]

When I played in punk bands it was taken for granted that everyone was a veggie. Until we travelled to other cities. Down south no one gave a shit about it and one time in Belfast the host who was putting us up turned and sneered ''I hope non of yiz are fucking vegetarians' To which my mate from Cork said ''nah, we're not political''


Something died inside
...so I ate it

 

[subbuteo !]

Yes, people need to ensure that they're educated about what they're eating... and that includes you While what you've said about the meat industry might be relevant in the US and other parts of the world it is not relevant here in Ireland. Use of steroids in meat production is illegal here. Battery farming does not exist here in the way that it does in other countries (except maybe chicken, but free range chicken is easily and readily available). Irish produced food is among some of the best and highest quality in the world. And there are more chemicals allowed on the fruit and veg you buy in the supermarket than there are in the meat.

Regarding animal welfare... if we're not going to eat them then what do we do with them? Kill all male calves at birth and cremate them? Kill all cattle and stop consuming dairy too? They don't make good pets and feral cattle would pose a serious risk to motorists, walkers, cyclists and other members of the general public.

and not all the meat sold in ireland is irish be any means.
but yeap some interesting points there the politics of all food in general are very interesting.regarding chemicals,steroids,food miles,organic v gm,local jobs,big business etc
might start another thread on it.not really what i was asking about in this one.

and the last point is also another topic i think...not that its not interesting valid but kind of like to keep this on topic as it could easily go of in so many tangents.(not having a go by the way)

 

[Squiggle]

Yep, realised that as soon as I'd posted it... sorry for the tangents, just felt that those needed to be raised.

But to respond to your original post... I was a vegetarian for a while (before I lived in Dublin) and found that it didn't suit me. I found it difficult to consume enough protein and iron for my needs, despite the fact that I had direct access to seasonal fruit and veg from the garden and orchard. So being a vegetarian is not a long term option for me.

When hanging around with Dublin punks it was easier to not eat meat. Vendors at festivals were mostly veggie or vegan etc. If we were eating at someone's home and the majority were vegetarian it made sense to stick to veggie/vegan friendly dishes.

Doing something when you're part of a group is easier than sticking to it when you're on your own. Especially if that means having to prepare separate meals from the rest of your household. I think there is also an economic side to it too - some vegan/veggie supplements and substitutes are very expensive and there is economy of scale.

Plus, meat is yummy! I know quite a few vegan punks who literally drooled at the mention of a nice juicy steak

 

[subbuteo !]

I think there is also an economic side to it too - some vegan/veggie supplements and substitutes are very expensive and there is economy of scale.

Plus, meat is yummy! I know quite a few vegan punks who literally drooled at the mention of a nice juicy steak

yeah for sure i realise how its very much a privlage for me to be able to choose what,where when i eat etc.
i'd say steaks are nice alright but never had the more expensive cuts growing up

ah fuck it the thread will go off on tangents anyway.but thanks for all the contributions.

 

[screwworldorder]

Strip my punk points but I'm not a veggie and I never was. When I was a lil younger and I did think about switching, it was only to complete the package and be p.u.n.x. In my mind it was just the thing to do, but I'd hate to do something like that for the wrong reasons, and give a bad reputation to people who are dead serious about their animal rights/vegetarianism/veganism. In a way I'm glad I didn't...

 

[Janer]

Regarding animal welfare... if we're not going to eat them then what do we do with them? Kill all male calves at birth and cremate them?

The transition from rearing cattle for food and dairy products to entirely STOPPING that is not something that could be achieved in even 50 years. But small changes can happen in localised areas in the meantime. It's a whole industry you'd be trying to change and eliminate, so not something that could or would happen easily.

First off, there's the artificial insemination aspect. Stop that totally and you reduce the numbers born. Restrict the access of bulls to cows and you restrict the numbers also. But you're left with the problem of what to do with all the male calves born in the meantime. So again it would be a phased in thing...