A question on Publishing (1 Viewer)

[DontMugYourself]

OK so whats the deal with Publishing, nobody seems to know shit about it (that includes those that have signed a publishing deal)

Where can I learn more? I dont mind buying a book that spells it out, do you know one that is in simple english (No legaleeze??)

Bambi had a publishing deal and the Rednecks signed one last year. What the story with it? How does it all work 'n all?

I'd be interested to know what anyones got to say on it.

 

[fluffy]

I'm not sure if I understand it myself, but here it goes:

In the old days when music was something you bought on sheets of paper to have sing-alongs over the piano, the big sponduluks were in publishing.
Then along came the auld gramaphone... which people initially thought was a bit of a gimick, but slowly the power shifted over to record companies. Then, as now, the record company owns the recording, the publisher looks after the sheet-music, essentially. Publishers figured they could still fit themselves into the equation as sort of unnecessary middle-men. In the days when performers didn’t write their own music, publishers had a clear-cut role sourcing songs for record company A&R departments.
When a singer/songwriter is signed to a publishing company, however, the real service publishers provide is tracking down every single red-cent and royalty they’re owed. Why would they do this? Because they keep about 50% of it. There’s lots of money in publishing.
When smaller indie bands get publishing deals its often a kind of gamble on the companies part. They know that the band is going to make no real money for them until they either get signed to a hard working label, or DIY themselves to Fugazi style riches. The label does nothing except wait and hope at this point.
A publishing advance can amount to anything from a couple of hundred quid to hundreds and thousands of Eurons, which is why a lot of bands seek out publishing first. If a band is lucky they get money to live for a year while they try and sort out a record deal/tour/write. Keep in mind however, that if your dealing with cowboys, you’ve just signed away a percentage of your songwriting royalties to cowboys. Which is fine, I guess, if you're into country and western.

 

[DontMugYourself]

song ownership

Is it true that with a publishing deal you are signing away ownership of your songs? eg Michael Jackson owning the Beatles catalog (is it not the publishing rights that he owns?)

i.e you loose a lot of control/ownership of your tunes??

 

[MDR]

Not necessarily. If you sign a publishing deal you are allowing someone the right to use your music for a publishing fee, for example in an ad, on a soundtrack, or just a plain old cover version. Depending on your deal, you may have final say so on the circulstances in which your song gets used. Usually, a publishing deal will last for a definite period, after which you can renogotiate the terms. In some cases the entire rights to use the recordings have been sold - for example, the rolling stones sold 'start me up' to Bill Gates for €1m.

The publishing company build up portfolio of music that they have the rights to and then approach people who need music for ads/soundtrack etc. and offer them the use of the songs at a price. In return you and the publishing company split any resulting revenue in whatever proportions are outlined in your deal. An obvious benfit of a publishing deal is that your music gets exposure outside the regular chart/radio play.

 

[egg_]

The basis of a publishing deal is you signing over your ownership of your material to a publisher. This may be for a limited time (often 10 years), and there may be conditions on what the publisher can use your music for (e.g. you can specify "don't use it in ads" but apparently it can be difficult to get this shit in your contract because it limits the amount of money the publisher can make on the music) ... but not necessarily. Any money made out of licensing the copyright after the deal has been signed is then split between you and the publisher (usually 50/50, but again this depends on your deal). Sources of income are
1. public performance royalties (the money you get where your stuff is played on radio/tv/in public)
2. mechanical royalties (a royalty you get every time a physical copy of your song is made e.g. a CD)
3. synchronisation/transcription licence money (for using your stuff
in ads or films/radio shows)
4. sheet music

So, instead of getting all the money from these income sources, you get half and the publisher gets half. Why would anyone do this? It's one thing if you're a pop songwriter and need someone to try and place your songs with Westlife - if you are publishing is very important - but I'm guessing you're not. The reason is not because if you don't have a publisher you don't get the money - 1. and 2. are likely to be your most important sources of money (especially if you're a good citizen and won't allow your music to be used in ads ) - 1. is collected for you by IMRO and 2. by the MCPS whether you have a publisher or not. You can forget about 4. really, unless you're a superstar ...
You may think that 3. is the important one, so - your publisher goes out and tries to get your songs into films and tv. To be honest, unless your signed to a publisher who has a specific reputation for doing this (as trm are), you can forget about this too ... if I was making a film I'd go looking in record shops for cool music, not to some publisher. So the ONLY REAL benefit you get out of publishing is your advance - basically what you are doing is giving up half your future publishing income (income derived from the 4 things above) in return for whatever you get in the advance (which, by the way, is repaid out of your half of the future money) ...
Yes, kids, publishing, IMHO, is a swindle. Sometimes it's a deal with the devil that may be worth making (if you really REALLY need the money) but be VERY careful about it. Any interview you read from old timers in the music bizzz contains the advice 'KEEP YOUR PUBLISHING'

 

[Speed Racer]

This is really helpful stuff, cheers for the info lads. Its kinda daunting thinking about these things, worried about gettin screwed over by sharks. The more information there is on the subject the less people will get fucked.

 

[MDR]

Nice one EGG, much more comprehensive than my bar stool explanation. I wonder if there's the bones of a things article there?

 

[#10-7]

methinks so, yes.

or at least the cartilige.



yes, i know i spelt that wrong.

 

[pete]

Originally posted by Mumblin Deaf Ro
for example, the rolling stones sold 'start me up' to Bill Gates for €1m.

That was for the Windows95 campaign, wasn't it?

I wonder did they include the "You make a grown man cry" line in the ads....

 

[Alex]

This is a very good site for info about publishing:

http://www.songwriters-guild.co.uk

 

[flo jo]

1. is collected for you by IMRO and 2. by the MCPS whether you have a publisher or not.

How do these guys make their money then? I know IMRO claim to be a non profit organisation but I don't quite get how they work.

Also if you are signed with a publishing company, do they then get a cut of performance/mechanical royalties also?

 

[DontMugYourself]

Originally posted by flo jo
1. is collected for you by IMRO and 2. by the MCPS whether you have a publisher or not.

How do these guys make their money then? I know IMRO claim to be a non profit organisation but I don't quite get how they work.

Also if you are signed with a publishing company, do they then get a cut of performance/mechanical royalties also?

Thanks Egg, That was prety sound of you to explain all that so thanks.

Flojo...to answer your question IMRO are a non-profit making organisation but, while they do collect royalties they take a small percentage to cover 'costs'. I believe that it is very little or nominal