RAG Party this Sat 10th Nov (1 Viewer)

[Corm]

"Be excellent to each other"

-Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted "Theodore" Logan.

 

[therealjohnny]

"I'm the Scatman....repeat after me
It's a scoobie oobie doobie scoobie doobie melody"

Scatman John

 

[Space]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1329362959167995041&hl=en

That clip's been aournd a good while though..posted 2 years ago


p.s.

“Hey! Instead of growing a moustache..how's about i just paint one on?”

[SIZE=-1]
Groucho Marx
[/SIZE]

Yeah and? FOC have been around longer than that.

"Be excellent to each other"

-Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted "Theodore" Logan.

Found this last night:

http://www.myspace.com/wyldstallynssavemusic

 

[therealjohnny]

Yeah and? FOC have been around longer than that.

oooh ! mr attitude


are you in looooove with Flight of the Conords? Are they your boyfrieeeend?

 

[Space]

oooh ! mr attitude


are you in looooove with Flight of the Conords? Are they your boyfrieeeend?

What if they are?

 

[therealjohnny]

they seem like nice boys

 

[São Paulo Punk]

No, I'm definitely not joking about women being selfish in regard to orgasm. I've had many experiences of women being desperately mercenary about attaining orgasm and wrecking the experience by using me as little more than a sex toy, when with a little time & patience we both could have come really hard. But I didn't realise it until I'd been with a lot of people and experienced the differences.

Yeah, I've had some seriously painful experiences in this regard. Fucking awful stuff.

All the same, the sooner we stop trying to blame one sex or the other; the better. If we accept that it can work both ways then we'll be bringing ourselves that little bit closer to reducing the gender imbalance in our society.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

I don't think anyone is badgering RAG to allow them into the group. I feel that people are voicing their opinion on the hypocrisy of an exclusive group claiming to be 'for everyone'.

This problem is inherent in lots of different forms of radical politics. 'Inclusion' is a general goal but always gets snagged by the very marginal nature of the group or organisation.

Just like the way Seomra Spraoi is described as an autonomous social centre, the ideal isn't always achieved in reality, but it is an ongoing aim nonetheless.

Seomra Spraoi started from nothing (just as RAG did), but an idea. Over time that idea has come to some fruition in becoming a physical entity, i.e. a magazine or a building.

But it doesn't stop there. These things are riddled with imperfections and contradictions. Why? Because they're created by humans, and we're not as clever as we like to make ourselves out to be.

Example: On Sunday I took my son to Seomra Spraoi, the night after the RAG launch. The place was clean, but it stank of stale beer everywhere. Hardly the kind of environment you want your kid to be playing in: sitting on beer stinking carpet. What if I had met someone from the local community and invited them to bring their kid along to the children's day? Would they have come back again? Probably not.

Potential lesson learned: If a lot of beer gets spilled at parties on the carpets, maybe have a look at changing the flooring to lino or wooden panels, something that can be mopped and disinfected well.

Potential Problems: Costs of new flooring, finding volunteers to carry out the changes in as quick at time-frame as possible to avoid cancellations of events etc...

So what happens? People criticise. Then we reflect on those criticisms and try to improve. It's an ongoing thing.

One thing that gets my goat with some anarchist rhetoric is the phrases like: "Come the revolution...", as if society is going to become suddenly static and we're all just going to get along with each other once we've established a more egalitarian society.

The fact is that there is no utopia. Humans are not capable of sustaining a utopian society. We're too fucking moaney. We can't leave things be. We can't stop being inquisitive. We have to keep poking at stuff.

I think that the best we can do is aim for the best outcomes in life for everyone, look out for each other as much as possible, and try to create the kind of environment that we fill fit to live in. Which is pretty much what things like RAG and Seomra Spraoi, with all their faults, are trying to do.

Maybe when we offer our criticisms, we can also try to offer some potential solutions too to help them along the way.

 

[the strange guy]

Well said.

He may have a few issues with Anarchist rhetoric, but when the revolution finally does come I hope that Owensão takes his rightful place as our supreme leader... I mean the Irish anarchist utopia's chief coordinator... I mean given a special position in chairing meetings where the whole population discuss issues pertaining to our autonomy, probably in Phoenix Park at the Pope's cross on a big platform with the biggest fucking megaphone and placard you've ever seen.

As an anarchist WSM member who follows party policy strictly, you have my vote. I mean hand waggle.

 

[pete]

chairing meetings where the whole population discuss issues pertaining to our autonomy, probably in Phoenix Park at the Pope's cross on a big platform with the biggest fucking megaphone and placard you've ever seen.

think of the newspaper selling opportunities! oh boy.

here lads gimme a heads up just before the revolution comes so i can buy me a printing press and some reams of paper.

 

[nofunchee]

I totally agree, but RAG isn't for everybody and doesn't pretend to be.

I don't think anyone is badgering RAG to allow them into the group. I feel that people are voicing their opinion on the hypocrisy of an exclusive group claiming to be 'for everyone'.

jaysus oly, on the same page and all.

'Inclusion' is a general goal but always gets snagged by the very marginal nature of the group or organisation.

it was already mentioned by shine that rag was always intended to be for women who were anarchists, to the exclusion of those who aren't those things. i don't personally know what all the fuss is about with them being women-only. they don't run the country. they are a group of anarchist women who put out a magazine about anarcha-feminist issues.

i think it's a shame that the obsession with the women-only thing actually puts people off reading the thing or makes them over-critical of what it says. the terms 'anarchist' and 'feminist' probably do the same for some people. i've found some insightful observations in the most unlikely of places or from fields of study that i am not familiar with. which is why i agree this post:

Changing the subject ever so slightly, I think that armchair psychologists need to stop talking out their holes when it comes to 'gender identity being a socially constructed phenomenon' (Stephen Doyle, I'm looking at you) and start reading up some Neuropsychology, Neuroscience and Neurophysiology so they can get a better grasp of how brain gender affects behaviour and thought.

on social construction though, i reckon what we think has to play a role along with how our brains actually work. our language, history, traditions, economy, religion, etc, etc, etc. all mediate how our bodies perceive and experience the world. i think that while biological gender differences are very relevant and that they must have some influence over what we do and how we behave, there are often big logical jumps made. science has a great history of explaining things away (that includes the social sciences).

 

[broken arm]

One thing that gets my goat with some anarchist rhetoric is the phrases like: "Come the revolution...", as if society is going to become suddenly static and we're all just going to get along with each other once we've established a more egalitarian society.

i've always considered anarchist groups and groups such as RAG as scum.

YES, i hear you say. but I don't mean any kind of scum.

think of slime mould.

as a creature, slime mould manages to find its way through a maze to fing the food it's after. the thing is, slime mould throughout most of its life is defined single celled units moving whatever way it wants by itself. Only when the conditions are right will it come together as a single entity which can act co-operatively to find more food. building into a creature, a storm, a swarm, a movement.

see what I'm saying?

links, synergy, conditions, unrelated activities, feedback loops, social contexts, love, gabber, sex.

 

[pete]

i've always considered anarchist groups and groups such as RAG as scum.

YES, i hear you say. but I don't mean any kind of scum.

think of slime mould.

as a creature, slime mould manages to find its way through a maze to fing the food it's after. the thing is, slime mould throughout most of its life is defined single celled units moving whatever way it wants by itself. Only when the conditions are right will it come together as a single entity which can act co-operatively to find more food. building into a creature, a storm, a swarm, a movement.

see what I'm saying?

links, synergy, conditions, unrelated activities, feedback loops, social contexts, love, gabber, sex.

hippy scum

 

[mazzyianne]

Ah jaysus!
I guess there's no point repeating myself but...
What about a magazine about homelessness that only homeless people were allowed to write for? Or a magazine about immigrants written by immigrants? Or about disabled people written by disabled people? Or about the experiences of nigerians in Ireland written by Nigerians?
It just makes sense. Who better to do the writing?
No publication can be about absolutely everyone's point of veiw on absolutely everything.

The language you guys are using is really leading. We didn't set up thinking, 'hey, lets exclude men', we set up thinking, 'lets write about some stuff from a women's prespective'.
No one would even notice if an anarchist group were all men, it might not be official but there's more subtle ways being exclusive.

And saying we're hypocritical for saying we're 'for everyone'!! Where do we say that? Anyone can read it maybe but we never pretended to be anything but an all-female anarchist feminist colletive!! I would say it couldn't be clearer that it's not for everyone!!

Also, I reckon if RAG published articles by people who weren't in the collective we would publish articles written my men. Not everything about RAG is set in stone but for now we dont. The reason is that the magazine is more about the process. We have discussions (many of which are open to anyone) and ideas are developed, the articles begin.

Seriously dudes, some unnecessarily bitchy and some totally made up stuff being thrown around here.

 

[taubstumm]

Ah jaysus!
I guess there's no point repeating myself but...
What about a magazine about homelessness that only homeless people were allowed to write for? Or a magazine about immigrants written by immigrants? Or about disabled people written by disabled people? Or about the experiences of nigerians in Ireland written by Nigerians?
It just makes sense. Who better to do the writing?
No publication can be about absolutely everyone's point of veiw on absolutely everything.

The language you guys are using is really leading. We didn't set up thinking, 'hey, lets exclude men', we set up thinking, 'lets write about some stuff from a women's prespective'.
No one would even notice if an anarchist group were all men, it might not be official but there's more subtle ways being exclusive.

And saying we're hypocritical for saying we're 'for everyone'!! Where do we say that? Anyone can read it maybe but we never pretended to be anything but an all-female anarchist feminist colletive!! I would say it couldn't be clearer that it's not for everyone!!

Also, I reckon if RAG published articles by people who weren't in the collective we would publish articles written my men. Not everything about RAG is set in stone but for now we dont. The reason is that the magazine is more about the process. We have discussions (many of which are open to anyone) and ideas are developed, the articles begin.

Seriously dudes, some unnecessarily bitchy and some totally made up stuff being thrown around here.

all true

but remember

rule #106,461 of thumped: "oly is probably winding you up."

 

[mazzyianne]

all true

but remember

rule #106,461 of thumped: "oly is probably winding you up."

I wish that was the case but unfortunately I dont think so this time.

Cheers Buzzo by the way, glad u liked it!

On the bright side this has provoked some discussion within rag and we're thinking of having a discussion on the subject in the new year, open to all of course.
Maybe we can start doing some more non women-only things if people are so interested.!bing

Also coming up in future Rag discussions - community education (because that article was last minute and didn't get much discussion) and one on sex work/prostitution which will probably involve reading something and discussing it. First Mondays of months starting December, same buzz as last year.

 

[the strange guy]

Dunchee: You're right, science does a great job of explaining things away - like bullshit. (Yeeeeooooow!) Gender is not a social construct, it's genetic. Society can shape modern gender expectations, but ultimately gender difference (and the fundaments of gender roles) lie in subtly different brain structure as well as the effect of hormones. Please don't tell me people don't believe in hormones too!

There's a classic controversial example of different brain structure between the sexes. A male brain is, typically, larger than a female brain and that body size difference does not account for this discrepancy (Look it up, fact fans - Pakkenburg and Gundersen 97, I think). Obviously I'm not trying to suggest that this makes men brainier! These structural differences are the essence of who we are. The brain is a very misunderstood thing and ignoring science doesn't help anybody. Science can tell us all more about ourselves and the world around is in cold hard facts. It's like spiritualism with maths!

Mazzianne, relax. The 'Weekly Irish Life with the Nigerians and Poles' example... well if I had my tongue any further in my cheek I'd look like a Christy Brown impersonator. Piss take.

Ultimately, nobody is here to change anyone's minds. I think at this stage we can be fairly sure we're all clued in to what we're in to and this is all just passing the time. As I said before, I understand what RAG is, what it's about and why it exists. There was a misunderstanding on my part as to what part of issue 1 was about, I apologised 11 pages back. I think having a gender imbalance while trying to address a gender imbalance is funny-haha and funny-peculiar, but I don't want to change it. I think it's great what you're doing, but I don't want a part of it. But I can say whatever I want about it because that's how my utopia works..|..|

And I doubt I'm the only one to notice that you can't say "Sexism" without saying "SEX IS MMMMMMMM". There's a clear gender imbalance in the English language which hasn't been studied and needs to be addressed by a group of men.

 

[Shorty]

No publication can be about absolutely everyone's point of veiw on absolutely everything.

No, this isn't acceptable! The next RAG had better be like a fucking United Colours of Benetton advert or else you know what the consequences will be?!! more bitching on eirecore

 

[São Paulo Punk]

it was already mentioned by shine that rag was always intended to be for women who were anarchists, to the exclusion of those who aren't those things. i don't personally know what all the fuss is about with them being women-only. they don't run the country. they are a group of anarchist women who put out a magazine about anarcha-feminist issues.

Ah yeah, I was just saying that the ultimate goal of anarchism is the creation of a more egalitarian society, not a political ghetto. But as I said, it's an ongoing thing, it doesn't have an end.

Just for us all to recap, here's how RAG describes itself again.

The RAG is a magazine produced by a diverse group of anarcha-feminist women in Dublin. We are all feminists, united in our recognition that women's subordination exists. Our struggle needs to be fought alongside the struggle against other forms of oppression, not treated as an afterthought or as a distraction. We are all anarchists, united in our belief for the need to create alternatives to this capitalistic, patriarchal society wherein all are dominated and exploited.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Would anything be achieved if men were allowed to write for RAG?

Maybe help to breakdown the illusion in peoples minds that you don't have to be female in order to be a feminist. For one thing, I think that an article on how being a male expressing feminist ideals and coming under a lot of fire for it, from both men and women, either among friends or in the work place or whatever, would make for some interesting reading.

I'm sure that RAG will publish something like this at some stage in the future. That's something that I'd personally like to see appearing within the context of a RAG issue anyway. Obviously, it's essentially about womens experiences but as Marianne said, nothing is set in stone.

And Oly, you can fuck off with all that neuroscience bollox. Nature can kiss my arse.

Death to the Scientists!

NURTURE! NURTURE! NURTURE! NURTURE!