What the ?? (1 Viewer)

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

so, who was at the gig?

andrew

 

[mac warzonescum]

I dont know of any groups that consist of a worrying number of people around the world that dress up or use emblems or signs of nurses, ghosts, doctors, gibbering shoggoths, ect that go around beating people up or killing them.

You left out the hypothetical people dressed up as cops.

 

[avernus]

so, who was at the gig?

andrew

I thought it was a rally.

 

[Blackenedflag]

You left out the hypothetical people dressed up as cops.

No, I intentionally left that one out.

 

[spuded]

um no, not really. even people who were offended by it presumably didn't believe they were a nazi band. they just didn't appreciate the humour. that's entirely their own perception.

unless you feel nazism is in some extra-special catagory of offense, which i think you conceded already is a pretty weak position, are you really suggesting that everyone should avoid anything which may cause offence to anyone?

i'm just extrapolating what seem to be your principles here...

yes i do feel nazism is in a special category of offence if ya really need to know

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

well can we at least look at the positives?
- some good bands played
- a lot of money was raised for ian stuarts family
- people had fun

andrew

 

[avernus]

 

[oh shit]

yes i do feel nazism is in a special category of offence if ya really need to know

i think it is too actually.

can't wait til the gang logs on tomorrow and sees this.

g'night!

 

[mac warzonescum]

You left out the hypothetical people dressed up as cops.

No, I intentionally left that one out.

You did X
No, I did X.

 

[mac warzonescum]

yes i do feel nazism is in a special category of offence if ya really need to know

Honest non-partisan question: Why?

 

[spuded]

nazism has always been to me is a very violent and aggressive ideology, yes i do realise that more people died in russia under stalin but communism isn't intrinsically about hate, whereas i feel nazism is, maybe thats very basic but as i said before these are just my beliefs.

 

[spuded]

well can we at least look at the positives?
- some good bands played
- a lot of money was raised for ian stuarts family
- people had fun

andrew

now that was funny!

ian stuart driving school, yeahhh!!!

 

[Blackenedflag]

You did X
No, I did X.

I clock it in at 1.38 am. That's when your posts completly stop making sense. didnt you read what avernus said? Now let it go.

 

[beergoth]

So, what is Yakuza's sin here - that they sported a symbol which could have been misconstrued?

This is just bollox - could have been misconstrued? What about a swastica can be misunderstood? No matter what feast or day of the year it is, or how ironic it's supposed to be, swasticas are not funny - at any time or any place. I find it extremely offensive, and think it's scary how people can even consider thinking swasticas to "just" be for the laugh and fun.
In Denmark where I come from anyone who showed up at a gig dressed as a nazi and flashing nazi symbols would get the shit beaten out of them by everyone else there. We fucking have to fight nazis and their supporters every day there, just cause the irish nazis haven't woken up yet doesn't mean this is something to joke about. And anyway, the people that are the targets of the hate-trip of nazis (ourselves included) can't but be offended and scared by this - it's scary if these symbols are something you can just laugh about, no matter how many people are threatend by these symbols and their bearers.

And by the way, I'd rather be self-rightious than someone who thinks swasticas and nazisymbols is something to joke about

 

[Cormcolash]

Fuckin hell, this thread has gone mental. In the time it took me to read it I have been thinking different things and I can't remember them all. But I'll have a go at expressing an opinion, even though I know people get shot for those things around these here parts sometimes.

Right, personally I think it's a really good thing that issues such as this are discussed on this board, it makes things interesting around here. Discussion of stuff like this, DIY vs whatever, gives us all stuff to think about.

In my opinion the whole rape jokes/nazi jokes thing (and many other forms of humour with the same sort of connotations) is somewhat of a double-edged sword. I mean on the one hand, the wrong sort of joke can be immediately mis-perceived as not a joke at all, and the instigator labelled an arse. Also, it can be argued quite validly that joking about this sort of stuff totally trivialises the matters, when they should really be taken quite seriously.

On the other hand, satire is an often-used method of bringing to attention matters that may be getting overlooked by an uncaring public (so to speak), and can indeed be argued to de-trivialise (is that even a word?) the subject to which the satire pertains.

I think the reality of the situation is, the effectiveness or offensiveness of this sort of satire all lies in the context of the humour and the individual's reaction to it. So the end result for me would be that there is no way to prove whether it is okay or not to use this sort of humour, however one thing it does for sure is provoke argument and discussion.

Personally, I think it's pretty stupid to dress up in Nazi outfits for Halloween. You don't know who is going to see your band, what reaction they will have to it, and looking back you will regret offending anyone if you did. Then again, hindsight is a bitter thing, I know from experience as pretty much everyone should. I have to agree with the argument that if the Nazi problem in Ireland was considered much of a threat, Yakuza most likely wouldn't have chosen the particular outfit, but on the other hand I think racism in Ireland is a hugely talked-down thing, as if it doesn't exist, and this attitude does need to be addressed.

Also, I have been in the position of someone somehow (I have NO fuckin idea how) thinking I made a Nazi salute at a gig one time, then accusing me of being a Nazi, which suffice to say I was preeeeeety pissed off at. But then, as far as I'm concerned nothing I was doing could possibly be construed as racist, so go figure. Point is, people will jump to conclusions, something else that needs to be addressed. It might help if people knew for sure what the hell they were talking about before shouting it all over the internet, first I knew of that last incident was some dick calling me a nazi. Nice.

Basically I think what I'm getting at is that people can and will jump to this or that conclusion, and maybe if everyone used their brains first and demonstrated a bit more tact now and again, alot of arguments would never begin in the first place. In a sense I think Mac is saying that, although he might not agree with me, and will no doubt correct me on something at the least!

Really, stuff like this all boils down to how human beings communicate with each other, and it just emphasizes the different mindsets and characters that every human demonstrates. It makes me think that it is absolutely fucking amazing that we can ever get together to create anything at all! And I can only appreciate the punk scene all the more for this considering how open-minded and supportive I generally find it to be.

Anyway, on the subject of Communism vs. Nazism, Mac is damn right. But I have to be devil's advocate, and point out that they are not the same things, I think the ideas of Communism have always been twisted into something horrible and never properly put into practice, and then they probably never will be. Although by all accounts, Cuba is class (but most visitors probably don't get chucked in jail for making an anti-Castro remark).

Then again, Democracy is a false ideal, it has never been properly instituted and I doubt it ever will be. At the end of the day, in my eyes right now all the systems that have been tried all end up in what is essentially a police state where the wishes of minorities are inevitably cast aside. What is needed is something new, but how can people set up a system that works when they have to rely on all the flawed outside systems not to invade them, sanction them, or generally fuck them over?

This is why an anarchist system (in the way I think of it) has never been attempted, because it would never have a chance in the current political climate. But I'm rambling off course here. The only other thing I want to say is that it may be possible that Communism is seen as a more acceptable symbol of modern life as opposed to Nazism simply for the reason that Communism is often viewed as being completely against Capitalism in the wake of the Cold War, and as the majority of Westerners have to live in Capitalist systems (or an increasingly pervasive global capitalist system if you prefer), Communism is therefore the most recognizable form of rebellion. In a sense, the kids piss their parents off by turning into Goths.

So ends my essay for the day. How did I do Mac? Could I get a Philosophy degree with that? Maybe I could go for a politics one instead. Either way, I would appreciate it if people weren't pedantic with my comments, vain a hope as that is. Fuck it I'm hitting the 'Submit Reply' button.

Edit: FUCKING HELL LOOK AT THE STATE OF THAT POST! By the time I posted it practically an entire PAGE had been added to the thread!
Double-edit: It's much easier to get your head around with all the added spaces I think.

 

[avernus]

Hey Cormcolash......youre alright.

 

[Cormcolash]

Ha funny, I was just about to reply to my own post saying that I forgot to point out that as usual, I am unable to give Avernus and Bill Shatner rep for being funny bastards!

 

[avernus]

Ha funny, I was just about to reply to my own post saying that I forgot to point out that as usual, I am unable to give Avernus and Bill Shatner rep for being funny bastards!

yeah, I'm all out of rep giving aussi. fucking internet!!

 

[damien]

 

[Cormcolash]

Fuck fuck fuck! Damien would sooooo be getting rep for that!