POPPY DAY (1 Viewer)

[Kastrosama]

you mean its not a day to source and smoke some of the finest barcelona brown? im going to have to rethink what my political motives are.. i think i have it all wrong.

 

[damone]

The why the patriotic and natonalist sentiment came to be is largely irrelevant given that there was a nationalistic sentiment at the outbrake of the war and it was based on that nationalistic sentiment that many people enlisted in the various armies of Europe.




No, it's just a point I made to show that it wasn't at all a bunch of poor people with no other better option than joining the army. They were students with all the chances and possibilities second level and third level education students had at the start of the 20th century. They had a lot to lose from the war and obviously a lot to gain, so it is a bit silly to use the usual apologetic cliché that a lot of peopl who enlist in the army do so because they have no better option.



Well, the basic idea is that politicians like Mussolini in Italy and Hitler in Germany (but also in other Eastern European countries) worked up the discontent amongst war veterans, who felt let down for one reason or another, for their advantage using the nationalistic and patriotic card. Indeed the core of what would then become the National Socialist Party and the Fascist Party militant wing came from these war veterans.



Not only.
Italy was one of the countries which won the war but fell at the hands of fascism because of discontent of the failed promises of the Allied countries. Or there is the examples of a few Eastern European countries which had fought to a certain extent for independence but got sort of fucked over along the line and turned very rabidly nationalistic and to the right (Poland being a very good example).
As for how I know it, it's mainly because for the first year or so of the war the armies had a surge of people enlisting volountarily rather than getting people through conscription as for the latter days. Plus there is the fact that as mentioned by AMunk, there was a quite strong patriotic and nationalistic propaganda and sentiment all across Europe at the turn of the 20th century.

any country where there is discontent is going to experience a surge in nationalistic meatheadednesss ,eg britain in the seventie s,america post 9 11
volounteering for the army in the first year of the war doe s nt prove anything in particular was the driving force behind it,a steady income ,a chance to see foreighn lands when most people never travelled anywhere,the bullshit glamour that the media of the time peddled to the population,the fact that no one had come back yet blinded by gas ,driven mad by sheelshock,in a coffin,or simply just come back telling their friends ,family ,anynoe who d listen how horrendous war actually was,might have had something to do with it aswell
tides only turned against the war and conscription came in when the truth started to come out ,Gallopoli,the Somme ,nobody wouldve volunteared for that !!!!!!!

 

[AnarchoBob]

As I said, a lot of the early recruits where students who had chances of making big bucks even outside the army, so the whole idea of the army giving steady income and a chance to see foreign lands is quite simply redundant.
And obviously no one would have volounteered to quite probably being killed the first day on the front line, but you forget that when the war broke out everyone thought it would be over by Christmas 1914.

 

[Janer]

As I said, a lot of the early recruits where students who had chances of making big bucks even outside the army, so the whole idea of the army giving steady income and a chance to see foreign lands is quite simply redundant.

Not sure where you get this students bit, students pre 1914 would've been a very small user base for an army.

And obviously no one would have volounteered to quite probably being killed the first day on the front line,

But in no way did Governments of the day push this of course.

but you forget that when the war broke out everyone thought it would be over by Christmas 1914.

This is correct.

I'm with Damo's reply I'm afraid.

 

[damone]

As I said, a lot of the early recruits where students who had chances of making big bucks even outside the army, so the whole idea of the army giving steady income and a chance to see foreign lands is quite simply redundant.
And obviously no one would have volounteered to quite probably being killed the first day on the front line, but you forget that when the war broke out everyone thought it would be over by Christmas 1914.

where did you get that a lot if the early recruits were students/big bucks thing from , please?????

 

[Scientician 0.8]

The Franz Ferdinand assassination was a catalyst for war to start off but in the instance of WW1 it was the Germans who started it. The British were not evil getting involved, they were fulfilling the terms of the then ancient Treaty of London (1839). It could be said that they were too quick to enter the war and this is perhaps reflective of the jingoistic nature of the times, but we can never know what alternatives they had at the time that would have yielded a better result. As others above have said, there was a perception that it would be a swift victory, on both sides.
There were strategic and tactical errors that led to enormous bloodshed but by and large what did for them was the lack of a clear understanding of the implication of then recent advances in military technology in changing the nature of conflict. The highers up in the armies didn't know it and the jingoistic crowds of early volunteers didn't either.

The Naval race was perhaps an example of this.Although the British and others had been in the previous few decades involved in "brushfire wars" in their various colonies, none of the major parties in this war had fought a major campaign in the guts of fifty years.

With regard to the poppy, it is worth noting that soldiers from all around the world fought and died for the British cause in that particular war and it is unfortunately ironic that the Poppy has become a symbol of Daily Mail reading retards. It is worth noting again, the poppy is worn in Canada, Australia, NZ and elsewhere. The Republic of Ireland/NI have the problem that even though 50,000 of our young men died in that war and possibly should be commemorated, the poppy is too divisive a symbol.

 

[damone]

any chance of an answer mr anarchobob?

 

[CITY BABY]

The Franz Ferdinand assassination was a catalyst for war to start off but in the instance of WW1 it was the Germans who started it. The British were not evil getting involved, they were fulfilling the terms of the then ancient Treaty of London (1839). It could be said that they were too quick to enter the war and this is perhaps reflective of the jingoistic nature of the times, but we can never know what alternatives they had at the time that would have yielded a better result. As others above have said, there was a perception that it would be a swift victory, on both sides.
There were strategic and tactical errors that led to enormous bloodshed but by and large what did for them was the lack of a clear understanding of the implication of then recent advances in military technology in changing the nature of conflict. The highers up in the armies didn't know it and the jingoistic crowds of early volunteers didn't either.

The Naval race was perhaps an example of this.Although the British and others had been in the previous few decades involved in "brushfire wars" in their various colonies, none of the major parties in this war had fought a major campaign in the guts of fifty years.

With regard to the poppy, it is worth noting that soldiers from all around the world fought and died for the British cause in that particular war and it is unfortunately ironic that the Poppy has become a symbol of Daily Mail reading retards. It is worth noting again, the poppy is worn in Canada, Australia, NZ and elsewhere. The Republic of Ireland/NI have the problem that even though 50,000 of our young men died in that war and possibly should be commemorated, the poppy is too divisive a symbol.

would pretty much agree with all of what you said here except

"The Republic of Ireland/NI have the problem that even though 50,000 of our young men died in that war and possibly should be commemorated, the poppy is too divisive a symbol."

while we all Know full well the potency of symbols in this country I think the major problem is not with the poppy but what buying one funds, (aside from the completly separate argument that the families of war dead shouldnt need charity ,their goverment should be taking proper care of them)
I had nothing against the poppy till a few years ago, I wouldnt wear one ,but I thought it was just to commerate WW1 and my ladys mother used to wear one as her grandfather fought in the somme along with plenty of Limerick men, but to think your funding ,indirectly, british empire building and imperialism all through the last century ,should be a bit much for anyone in this country to condone, although all our media here love to tell us how we should "grow up" and "I thought we had matured beyond" blah blah fucking blah, how do you mature beyond your country having foreign soldier roaming around a quarter of it, should the palastians mature and grow up "your homeland is gone"? should the Iraqis mature beyond their country bein occupied after all that was a good five or six years ago now.......
jesus people drive me fuckin mad sometime


BRITS OUT! OF EVERYWHERE.



Now thats out of the way Im off to britain looking for a job

 

[magicbastarder]

i've been told that ireland and the UK are the only countries where the government pay for the upkeep of commonwealth war dead graves. i think what happened in ireland is that the government didn't want charities set up to look after the graves, and having to publicise their work.

the OPW produced a fairly hefty tome a year or two back about the commonwealth war graves in ireland.

 

[AnarchoBob]

Never said they were big bucks, just students which in the context of early 20th century meant people with a lot to lose. I am working to get together a couple of good sources, but it is a quite well known fact that universities (and to a certain extent Sixth form) were nearly completely emptied throughout the war, which I admit also includes the conscription of many young people after 1916.

But for example, the first call to arms made quite clear that they wanted men between 19 and 30 years old, obviously that means a lot of people and quite fittingly the entire university student population (and some Sixth formers) are exactly in that category. Over 3.000.000 young men volunteered in the fist couple of years of the war also thanks to the whole idea of the 'Pals battalions' which encouraged people to enlist together with their friends and fittingly a large number of schools (including a few prestigious public schools) had their own such battallions.

 

[Anarcho Munk]

Is it not fair to say though that these students yr talking of (who most likely weren't a very large number) were obviously from a quite privileged background to be in college in the first place, and being quite learned would have been in much more prestigious positions in the army than yr typical mutant off the street.

 

[GO]

I'm usually at war with me old lady..WHERES MY FUCKING COMMEMERATIVE BAUBLE?

 

[AnarchoBob]

Is it not fair to say though that these students yr talking of (who most likely weren't a very large number) were obviously from a quite privileged background to be in college in the first place, and being quite learned would have been in much more prestigious positions in the army than yr typical mutant off the street.

Well, not really.

First of all in those days it was actually the case that you had to be from at least a middle-class background to be able to attend university. Obviously middle-class is not filthy rich, but all the same middle-class is not starving poor.

And secondly, it is not true at all that having a dgre or being a student would have made you top rank in the army. It would have been only the case if these people attended the accademy, given the organisation of the British Army was that of a professional army and therefore anyone who enlisted normally had to start from 0 whoever and whatever they were.

 

[damone]

Never said they were big bucks, just students which in the context of early 20th century meant people with a lot to lose. I am working to get together a couple of good sources, but it is a quite well known fact that universities (and to a certain extent Sixth form) were nearly completely emptied throughout the war, which I admit also includes the conscription of many young people after 1916.

But for example, the first call to arms made quite clear that they wanted men between 19 and 30 years old, obviously that means a lot of people and quite fittingly the entire university student population (and some Sixth formers) are exactly in that category. Over 3.000.000 young men volunteered in the fist couple of years of the war also thanks to the whole idea of the 'Pals battalions' which encouraged people to enlist together with their friends and fittingly a large number of schools (including a few prestigious public schools) had their own such battallions.

you should ask jack o conner for a job ,"its quite a well known fact"means FUCK ALL !!!!!!!stop talking round in circle s and arseing about !
give me facts to back up what youve said ,get these source s cause this proves fuck all
by the way it takes more of a man to just say "Yeah i was wrong " ,rather than try to talk you re way out when you re just showing you re self up as an arsehole keep it str8 !

 

[AnarchoBob]

Why should I admit I am wrong when I don't believe to be so? Not trying to be cheky (unlike you), but haven't you thought that there could be the change that you are the one that is wrong?

Not trying to showing off, that is just a stupid thing to say. Just because I insist on something that I believe to be the case doesn't mean that I am just trying to showing off. For all I know, you could be the one trying to show off.

This is beyond playground bullshit.

 

[damone]

you said something ,back it up with factual evidence or stop wasting everyones time!!!

 

[Pat Pockets]

He said your showing yourself up not showing off...I'd go into detail on the difference between the two for you but my Pot Noodle is ready to be stirred again..

 

[AnarchoBob]

I said I will, just trying to point out how retarded it is to assume I am trying to show off or that I am wrong.

 

[Cormcolash]

Jona Lewie for president

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVEdE0O5tA&feature=related"]YouTube- JONA LEWIE - STOP THE CAVALRY - HQ video + lyrics[/ame]

 

[OLP]

Favourite christmas song.