What do you really think... (1 Viewer)

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Is this happening now Gary?

Surprisingly so(although it would seem I'm probably most guilty of taking it off topic,oops!!!)

 

[Janer]

That's fine if you want to have your own personal definition of 'punk', but it seems a bit silly to suggest that other people's use of it should be restricted because of it.

we all know the sort of 'sound' you are referring to when you use the term 'punk', but it's a word that means a whole lot more. It has a long and complex history and has meant different things at different times to different people. And that's one of the cool things about it, that the definition of the word itself is kind of punk as fuck. Which is precisely why you can't really try to put controls on who uses it and how.

If you only like music that has a particular type of sound, that's fine, those are your tastes, but it doesn't mean you can clamp a barbed wire fence around that and say that only things that fall within it are called 'punk', so designated because you like them. It's just that your musical tastes mirror your worldview, when punk as a concept is as changeable as the scenes themselves.

Er no maybe I didn't put it correctly.
Punk is Punk but since the 80's it has branched of into many diff directions, which I hate.
In the olden days it was just Punk and New wave to contend with but now you have so many diff versions of Punk that I am confused myself!!!!!!

Punk is Punk is Punk but unfortunaltly that doesn't always be the case when people or gigs are advertised as such.

 

[Daniel]

Janer-"no, no, thats all wrong. punks only jump this way"

 

[Janer]

Janer,please split the following bands ionto punk and non punk


Undertones.....new wave (these days would be classed pop punk)
Buzzcocks....... with howard Devoto Punk,without pop punk etc
Killing Joke.......no
Joy Division.........no
Stooges........pre 76 Punk and yes alot of punk bands said they were influnced by em but not Punk
Sonics.......donno 'em
Talking Heads..........new wave then mainstream
New York Dolls........Pre 76 punk and would just about give em Punk
Television.........not enough playtime to judge,may have listened 1/2 times but didn't like 'em
Ramones.......yes
The Ruts.......yes but old school
Discharge........1st line up yes, with Cal yes (although some people would say d-beat of course)
The Clash.....1st album
Dr Feelgood.........no
The Jam.........cross of Punk/New wave up until setting sons
Cock Sparrer........no ( but but!)
Count Bishops.....I want candy? new wave at best
Boomtown Rats......1st album new wave, tonic new wave too I guess
Stranglers.......upuntil the 3rd studio album they were a cross of punk/new wave
X Ray Spex.....yes


Thanks for taking part.

I should add that out of all the bands above I maybe listen to X-ray spex an odd time but I listen to mostly anarcho Punk and 90's punk bands.

 

[Janer]

I should add that when I go to Blackpool each year it is so nice just to have mostly Punk fans there
I do worry about Punk dying you see.

Off out for a few pints watching the footy, discuss subject after.

 

[Rimbaud]

Being serious though -
I'm still trying to figure out the whole concept of 'scenes'.
Never took much notice of it before - until i was trading with a label (Feral Ward) and they said we 'weren't the same scene', granted i was short on patch's and crust records to trade and he did'nt like the bracket.retards.bracket stuff.
As for the styles discussion, does'nt matter a shite to me!I don't see divisions much among genres, maybe when i was younger i did, but now i don't, once its good and makes a difference.
Punk for me at the moment is Tinariwen
This stuff from Soweto is freaking me out too, and Protestant and Kursk are wiping the floor with the stuff their creating these days....i'm drifiting into non-related stuff now.

I can well see the cross over into Hotpress land etc...as well as diy bands trying to jump on large corporate backed gigs - but i think times have changed so much its not surprising, nobody wants to play the same shitehole all the time or probably want the opinion of a wider audiance, this could be related too to the fact that Ireland/people have more cash, want more stuff, more focus on rewards/success...or the 'I want to have it all!' way of living.
There's a lot of crap out there too founded on sheer self centred ambition - not down with that myself, but everyone to their own...ambition is great though, self-centred/not looking out for others is bollocks.
There should be more dancing at gigs too, if the punks want to dance there shouldn't be someone tellin em otherwise, am i right?

This stuff from Soweto is freaking me out:
ata kak-yempaa aba

 

[Rimbaud]

Off out for a few pints watching the footy, discuss subject after.

I never get the whole soccer/punk thing - its just wrong...like beastality or something..

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

I should add that out of all the bands above I maybe listen to X-ray spex an odd time but I listen to mostly anarcho Punk and 90's punk bands.

hilarious,pretty much all bands that could easily be considered punk.

 

[ISUPALODE]

I never get the whole soccer/punk thing - its just wrong...like beastality or something..

ME TOO PLAY FOOTBALL IS GOOD, WATCH IT HAS NO APPEEL, I DONT GET IT TOO

 

[BC]

ME TARZAN, YOU JANE

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

I should add that when I go to Blackpool each year it is so nice just to have mostly Punk fans there
I do worry about Punk dying you see.

Off out for a few pints watching the footy, discuss subject after.

I personally don't think punk is anywere near dead. But,if I entered an argument about it,events like blackpool would lean me more towards punk being dead than alive.
To me,something like blackpool is were old punks go to die.

 

[skubol]

Being serious though -
I'm still trying to figure out the whole concept of 'scenes'.
Never took much notice of it before - until i was trading with a label (Feral Ward) and they said we 'weren't the same scene', granted i was short on patch's and crust records to trade and he did'nt like the bracket.retards.bracket stuff.
As for the styles discussion, does'nt matter a shite to me!I don't see divisions much among genres, maybe when i was younger i did, but now i don't, once its good and makes a difference.
Punk for me at the moment is Tinariwen
This stuff from Soweto is freaking me out too, and Protestant and Kursk are wiping the floor with the stuff their creating these days....i'm drifiting into non-related stuff now.

I can well see the cross over into Hotpress land etc...as well as diy bands trying to jump on large corporate backed gigs - but i think times have changed so much its not surprising, nobody wants to play the same shitehole all the time or probably want the opinion of a wider audiance, this could be related too to the fact that Ireland/people have more cash, want more stuff, more focus on rewards/success...or the 'I want to have it all!' way of living.

i'd say that is extremelly hard for some bands. " d.i.y. crust and screamo hardcore/punk scene" where my label exist is more open for the bands from all over the world and it's doesn't matter where you live. for bands like adebisi shank, hope is noise, vimans it's much harder to be well know anywhere outside ireland because all the labels who releasing similiar stuff anywhere else especially in the usa are doing only exclusive distribution, they are not into trading at all.
it's easy to do one month european tour for tunguska but if you wan't to do tour for adebisi shank it's not gonna be so easy. you have to hire some stupid booking agency coz nobody knows them in europe. they charged a lot and you will see 10 people coming on every gig in bigger venues. it's looks very sad when band like that coming back from tour and they tell everyone that tour goes great.
and it's really doesn't matter how good the band is. that's just the way it is.

by the way i really like adebisi shank!!

 

[jane]

I personally don't think punk is anywere near dead. But,if I entered an argument about it,events like blackpool would lean me more towards punk being dead than alive.
To me,something like blackpool is were old punks go to die.

I remember when I was like 15 and I swore I'd have a mohawk til I died, and I'd be all punked out into my old age. But instead, I think I've developed a broader appreciation for music and for non-musical endeavours that embody the DIY spirit. So in a way, I think i've always stayed punk as fuck, just like punk can never die because it's so flexible and changeable.

That said, I still absolutely think the most adorable creatures ever are teenybopper punks who are all punk as fuck. And I especially love how if you tell them they're adorable, they'll tell you to fuck off. Proper order, like.

By the way, it's off the subject completely, but there's a bit of debate about what is and isn't considered acceptable to be called archaeology. Some dudes started a website trying to destroy what they think of as sham archaeology, and I've realised in the last few years how misguided I think that sort of thing is. I do think the books that say the pyramids were built by aliens should not be in the archaeology section of the bookstore, but I would rather share the planet with them than narrow the definition of archaeology so that only academics can claim the right to interpret the past.

In other words, I like to think that the DIY spirit has pervaded a lot of what I do, and that makes me feel nice, like going to hardcore shows as a teen wasn't just about being a snotty punker. It actually taught me some incredibly important lessons that help me find my place in the world.

Sorry, that's really going off-topic.

I still think the dudes who fix old buses every weekend are the punkest dudes ever. Honestly, if I were looking for advice on how to set up a sustainable DIY venue/project/whatever, those would be the people I'd go to.

 

[damien]

I'm gonna get a lot of shit for saying this personally, divisions in the scene don't bother me at all.I personally don't feel like I have anything in common with , say, the folks who post on Moshspace, or Punk for It, in terms of musical taste or anything else. And I'm not going to go out of my way at this point in my life to support something I don't feel any connection to or enjoy musically, I have neither the money or time to do so. I KNOW a bunch of other folks feel the same way about this, but noone ever says it.

I wish them well and all, but it's not for me. Likewise, I don't expect people to support stuff I do if they have no interest in it.It's always been that way, it always will be. The "eirecore" folks get a lot of shit for being intolerant or unsupportive of these kinda things (and yes, I'll put my hand up and say I personally have been guilty of it, something I've tried to change in the last while), but I firmly believe it goes both ways.

Basically I'm a grumpyu old man andI don't want to be part of the same scene as folks who don't believe Minor Threat and Bad Brains are hardcore bands

fair enough that you feel this way but actively encouraging this kind of scene-splintering is selfish and stupid.

 

[Cormcolash]

I started quite a similar thread on here about a year ago.
Anyway I'm mostly with Dan on all this, I pretty much agree with all the stuff he's been saying.
One point I'll pick up on though is that each city/place that does gigs in Ireland should be looked at independently from all the rest. Belfast, Dublin, Galway, wherever, they're all different and have slightly different attitude to gigs. I go to quite a lot of gigs in Dublin and organise most of the stuff in Belfast, so I have an idea of what things are like in these places.

Dublin does seem to be having problems, particularly with communication between the different scenes that have started up. There's also A LOT of gigs in the Lower Deck, to the extent that some of them are practically empty because either the line-ups aren't anything special or there was something great on the night before. I really think this is a major problem, and that everytime someone wants to put a gig on they should try their utmost to make sure there is nothing similar on in the same week at least. Half the time I spend when booking a gig in Belfast is pretty much devoted to this.
Galway as far as I know doesn't really suffer from this problem, and thats pretty much all down to Dan from what I hear.

In saying that, it's cool that with the different scenes in Dublin, there's usually always someone who can help out with a gig there if a touring band really needs one. We don't have that so much in Belfast, probably because most of the people who do gigs here end up working all on their own because other people can't be arsed. I'm sure Damo might have a few opinions on that too.

Belfast is doing okay right now, there's a good number of gigs in the sense that we're getting a good number of touring bands playing but we're not having too many gigs that it greatly affects the crowds, and although it's been pretty quiet over the Summer it's starting to pick up a little again I reckon. Belfast will always be quiet over the Summer for the obvious reasons.

It would be nice to see more communication though. For instance, that person who says they were talking to Jonnie about setting up a touring circuit. If Jonnie had even mentioned that to me I could have told him that there is already a circuit in place and you just have to ask the right people, but it seems no-one ever asks me about stuff before they go to organise it, which results in the odd gig clash, and other people just don't care even if they know there's something similar on that night.

Of course, if people are organised well enough in advance, then all this can be sorted out months beforehand so there is no need to worry about it, as Colin and I have found in Belfast. In October we have two touring bands playing the same venue on Thursday and Friday nights, and weeks ago we sorted out a way to run it to try and make sure both gigs get a decent crowd, that's at least 2 months in advance.

One of the major problems we have in Ireland is that there are so few people doing all the work with regards to the diy scene. To put it better, the few people who are properly organised for gigs and stuff are usually the only people I ask to do gigs, because they're the only ones you know aren't going to fuck it up. From what I can see there is a severe lack of organisation outside these few people. There are a good lot of others who have their hearts in the right place and want to help in their own way, but most of the time I find that once those people realize just how organised you have to be when you're doing gigs for touring bands and stuff, and how much time it takes up, they quickly lose interest with what they want to do, or they realize that they're too busy with their own stuff. Personally, I found it very difficult to do gigs when I was working, and now that I'm not working but doing a lot more gigs, I spend most of my time sorting the gigs out.
Then again, I have nobody helping me out with gigs, and I do all my own posters and flyers, spend hours making them and putting them up, and there have been gigs I've done where I've provided the entire backline despite not playing in any of the bands. The times I've tried to have people help me have ended being half-assed for the most part, again down to a lack of organization in other people.

I was extremely disappointed by how few people from outside of Belfast came along to the GGI fest. As someone pointed out this would be one of the important festivals taking place, and hardly in Ireland from outside Belfast travelled to it. As it was, we just about broke even, but some of the Scottish bands lost a little money. If even 20 more people had turned up for the weekend then no-one would have lost anything and it would have been perfect, we're just lucky that we got a really good crowd from Belfast and a good few people from Scotland and Holland.

At this stage, I've become rather cynical about some parts of the scene. It seems to me the lack of organisation from a lot of people stems from an overall lack of commitment to the diy scene in general. I really think that if more people were properly commited to the diy scene here, then there would be a hell of a lot more stuff happening around Ireland. I think people really need to examine their own motives when it comes to being part of diy. I do it because I actually enjoy putting on bands, despite all the hassle, it keeps me happy and some of the bands I get playing are fucking great.
There's an awful lot of people who just want to go to gigs to get pissed or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have 2 people pay and stand right up the front enjoying a band they really want to see, than have 20 people pay in and then sit outside drinking all night. This was one of the constant and continuous problems in Giros, and it brought nothing but trouble. If you're really not interested in seeing any bands play, then don't go to the gig. If you don't know what the band is like beforehand, you can almost always listen to them somewhere on the net to find out. If you still go to the gig, you have no basis for complaint. If you're just going to get wasted no matter what the bands are like, to the point where you won't even remember that much of whose playing, you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to do that.

As to the independent scene outside the punk area, I think that is a strong point in Ireland right now, there are loads of cool bands from all different genres making good music, and if I like them I will definitely do a gig for them.

Finally I think the whole "what is punk, what isn't punk, etc etc etc" should be kept off this forum full-stop, as it only ever goes around and around in circles. That includes the ridiculous sweeping statements some people are making on the subject. The people discussing it are not going to agree with each other anyway, and there is no point discussing something with someone who isn't going to agree with you.

That's what I call a rant.

 

[cesspooldublin]

fair enough that you feel this way but actively encouraging this kind of scene-splintering is selfish and stupid.

but that's my whole point damo, I'm not actively trying to encourage it.I'm just saying personally, I can understand it and I can see why it happens.read again:

"I wish them well and all, but it's not for me. Likewise, I don't expect people to support stuff I do if they have no interest in it.It's always been that way, it always will be. The "eirecore" folks get a lot of shit for being intolerant or unsupportive of these kinda things (and yes, I'll put my hand up and say I personally have been guilty of it, something I've tried to change in the last while), but I firmly believe it goes both ways."

I accept that these divisions are there, for better or for worse, I'm neither condoning or condemning them. If you're saying I'm selfish and stupid for that I don't get it? Why am I not allowed to state my opininon without being accused of "encouraging division"??

If you're referring to the last line of my post, fair enough.I just thought it was funny, tongue firmly in cheek there.I doubt many people will know what I'm referring to anyway.I'm really not interested in some sort of scene drama, which I get the feeling you're implying I am.

Incidentally, I agree with Cormac actually, very valid poiint: there is a plus side to the seperatism in so far as if one bunch of folks can't/won't put you on,somebody else will.

Apologies if I took you up the wrong way there.

 

[Daniel]

I was extremely disappointed by how few people from outside of Belfast came along to the GGI fest. As someone pointed out this would be one of the important festivals taking place, and hardly in Ireland from outside Belfast travelled to it. As it was, we just about broke even, but some of the Scottish bands lost a little money. If even 20 more people had turned up for the weekend then no-one would have lost anything and it would have been perfect, we're just lucky that we got a really good crowd from Belfast and a good few people from Scotland and Holland.

I am genuinely sorry that i did not make it up. I organised the Fleas and Lice show in Galway on the Thursday and went to the Ballina show on the Friday night... mainly to make up some numbers for this gig as it was the first time this venue was beeing used. A good friend of mine was organising it and as we feared not that many people turned up from Ballina. The travellin' punx from Galway and Dublin however really helped to make the night a success.
I was also pissed off that we couldn't play GGI in the end even though i had told all band members 6 months in advance so i decided to work the weekend instead. Sorry Cormac.
And before anyone says "you should not be expected to go to gigs" in some cases some of us should make that extra effort.

 

[Rimbaud]

maybe we should all move to the same city for the laugh!

 

[Cormcolash]

I'd just like to reinforce my opinion on this:

This thread is meant to be about discussing the Irish diy punk scene. It's not meant to be about trying to define or discussing a definition of punk in general, and I think that should be completely left off this thread. Start another thread about it if you really feel the need.
Dan raised a very valid point in the sense that there is a lot of stuff on Eirecore that is unrelated to punk in everything except ethics. Other people raise points that punk is whatever a person's definition of it is.
Fair enough, but I would say that most of the people here are quite aware of what this thread is about when the term punk is used, and the silly arguing should be kept to another thread.

 

[Daniel]

maybe we should all move to the same city for the laugh!

Or how about a 3 month period of no out of Ireland bands on tour to give all the local bands a chance to do some proper Irish tours. Not really like but that would be nice...