VICA - opinions? (1 Viewer)

[rettucs]

Welcome - Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad

Votes For Irish Citizens Abroad

what do we think of this? I can see a case for it for sure. But what value is there to be gained from someone who fits their criteria, who has lived in London for 10 years, having a say in issues that don't directly affect them?

I would be interested in what others think of this.

 

[ann post]

On the whole I agree with it. when I go to vote this year, there will be 5 voting slips in the hallway of my folks house.

may parents live abroad a lot but still pay tax and function in the irish economy and the community they live in.
both sisters work in belfast, one forever, one making a lot of noise about moving south soon.

So out of those 4 non voters, 3 have a fair stake in Ireland IMHO.

Why its opposed is because SF are the only party to be really active abroad. Just imagine mobilising the whole boston Irish republican crew. while these people are entitled to their say and many may actually be still on an irish passport, it would landslide an election in a way that I don't think reflects the irish citizens.

If we move to a more online policy/poltical model then maybe it could be transitioned to without bias.

 

[rettucs]

Why its opposed is because SF are the only party to be really active abroad. Just imagine mobilising the whole boston Irish republican crew. while these people are entitled to their say and many may actually be still on an irish passport, it would landslide an election in a way that I don't think reflects the irish citizens.

I hadn't considered that at all. They're calling for 'reserved constituencies', rather than voting in their home constituency (like they do in America).

I don't think its as black and white as they make it out, on the face of things at least. I'm sure theres a varying degree of interest among those who have emigrated. A lot probably do intend to return home at some point, and I think theres a lot of merit in allowing people like that to vote. How do we make the distinction between those people and people who have little interest in what goes on here, or who have little interest in ever returning.

I went to college with a good few lads who moved to the US. The majority of them will never come back. They'd never earn as much as they do there. Most are married to American girls, have kids, etc. Their situation gives them enough to worry about for them to have any idea about what its like to live here now; what the burning issues for people are, etc.

The other consideration is, if Irish citizens abroads are granted a vote, can it be expected that they make a contribution somehow back home? The most obvious way being by declaring a tax return in Ireland (as happens for every American citizen living abroad).

One particular issue I have with the campaign run by VICA is that they don't use the offical Irish criteria of what constitutes an Irish citizen. Specifiying 'Irish born' is a nonsense, when that is not the official criteria used in Ireland. I'm an Irish citizen but by their rules I would not qualify for a vote if I moved to England or elsewhere.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I'm absolutely against it, unless there is a move to the American model as above where all Irish citizens are levied with a tax, regardless of where they live.
Our electoral register is a mess anyway (witness people flying home to vote in the SSM referendum), I can see this being an unholy mess if ever instituted.

 

[pete]

Without having given this any thought whatsoever I'd probably say definitely for presidential, maybe for referenda, but not for general elections.

 

[rettucs]

Without having given this any thought whatsoever I'd probably say definitely for presidential, maybe for referenda, but not for general elections.

Same as that I think. I'd be a bit stronger on referenda since they affect our constitution so are, by definition, more permanent changes. So I'd be all for Presidential and Referenda, but against Dail elections.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Without having given this any thought whatsoever I'd probably say definitely for presidential, maybe for referenda, but not for general elections.

Surely here referenda and general elections should be reversed? Governments only last 5 years whereas the result of a referendum can stand for ever essentially.

 

[egg_]

I don't like the way that this tends to be reduced to taxes - "if you pay taxes here then you should be entitled to vote here" - because that suggests you essentially buy your citizenship.

IMHO you should get a say in decisions that affect you. If it doesn't affect you (and most elections here don't affect anyone living abroad) then you can fuck off

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

What about votes for old people? Should they be restricted? I was thinking about this the other day, I forget what I thought. Something like if I was old and there was a referendum about something important would I vote in it? If people were really engaged and considering the implications of this vote for the future and it wasn't really going to affect me one way or the other then it be pointless - perverse even - for me to vote.

 

[nooleen]

i think the sheer inhumanity of not letting old people vote because they'll be dead soon would have to keep that from happening

 

[IFF]

Why its opposed is because SF are the only party to be really active abroad. Just imagine mobilising the whole boston Irish republican crew. while these people are entitled to their say and many may actually be still on an irish passport, it would landslide an election in a way that I don't think reflects the irish citizens.

And then there is also the big sf vote in northern Ireland.

Maybe have senate seats for both Irish citizens abroad but also have a separate constituency in the senate for people regardless of nationality living in Ireland too. Although if through senate seats, it would all have a meaningless effect and just be posturing

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I don't like the way that this tends to be reduced to taxes - "if you pay taxes here then you should be entitled to vote here" - because that suggests you essentially buy your citizenship.

I'd look at it from the other side - if you want to maintain your democratic right to vote while living abroad then you should be willing to fulfill a/your financial obligation to the state. Its not about buying citizenship so much as it is fully participating in the 'state', not just taking the good parts of it.

 

[hydromancer]

Well people probably can vote if they returned to do it otherwise I think it would be a qeustion of how realistic a perspective someone can have about Ireland when they are not liveing here.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

‘Home to what?’: Emigrants want a say in who runs the show while they’re living abroad

Emigrants... bah.