That new Kylesa album then (2 Viewers)

[cesspooldublin]

It's very nice.

However, I can't order it from 20 buck spin, because us Euros have to order it from Hate records in Germany: but the Hate records site says they've stopped taking orders for it.

what the fuck like?

 

[skubol]

i'll have some copies in a few weeks time.

 

[AnarchoBob]

Aye, it is pretty bloody annoying how the only place that is available for Euro people to pre-order it won't do it.

Anyways, if you are gonna have copies when it comes out, I bags one.

 

[stepdown]

Fuckin deadly album \m/

 

[scrawlzine]

It's very nice.

However, I can't order it from 20 buck spin, because us Euros have to order it from Hate records in Germany: but the Hate records site says they've stopped taking orders for it.

what the fuck like?

#

They've stopped taking orders because the people involved with the European label (la Familia) have a problem with Kylesa potentially booking an extensive tour with Nachtmystium (who have had releases on labels associated with NSBM bands and individuals).

Quote from Nachtmystium on Wikipedia:
"“In the past, we’ve had some indirect ties to labels and bands that are part of the NS scene. At one point not too many years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for NS labels or bands to trade and work with non-politically motivated bands and labels because at the end of the day, we’re all trying to promote, release, and be involved with music—all politics aside. Today it seems like there’s less of a connection, at least for me and my label. We don’t oppose people’s right to be ‘NS’ or whatever—that’s a personal choice, and if you live in the USA, you have the right to that opinion. Even though I personally, my band(s) and my label have absolutely no interest in being a part of that scene, I will ALWAYS take their side when it comes to their freedom of speech being imposed upon.”

On one hand, I can empathise with the desire for creativity outside of a political context. Having "no interest in being a part of that scene" is fine. On the other hand, this is the real world,and if you're willing to deal with Nazi sympathisers to further your art, you have to accept responsibility - you are part of that scene.

I can certainly respect the labels decision not to participate in the European release of the new album. Regardless of whether you think their reaction is "correct", they're refusing to compromise on their own values or sit on the fence.

So, this is where the ideological differences between the politicised underground DIY punk scene, and the increasingly commercial HC/metal crossover scene become apparent. There has been a train of thought in certain threads on boards recently that has said that politics is largely irrelevant in how "DIY" a band is, regardless of genre. Whilst the cultural landscape has certainly changed over the last few years, the European DIY hc/punk networks WERE more extensive due to having a backbone of (or at least association with) left wing political ideas.

But the whole episode raises interesting points...whether it be regarding the increasingly commercialised and merch driven "underground" music scene, or notions of political cuplability overall.

Where should the line be drawn? I notice other bands currently riding high on the scene have played with Nachtmystium, Wolves In The Throne Room being one (a band who have articulated an explicitly left wing ideology in past statements).

Interested to hear rational discussion on this...

 

[Gambra]

So they're going to just leave 500 or 1,000 LP's just sit there because of some spat over Kylesa playing with a band who've played with a few NSBM bands? Well done guys, that makes complete sense.. Kylesa have done nothing wrong at all.

 

[Gambra]

Oh and the new Kylesa is fucking great. Can't wait to get it to complete the Kylesa LP collection.

 

[scrawlzine]

So they're going to just leave 500 or 1,000 LP's just sit there because of some spat over Kylesa playing with a band who've played with a few NSBM bands? Well done guys, that makes complete sense.. Kylesa have done nothing wrong at all.

No...I don't think they are pressing a separate regular European edition at all...which is what was planned.
They had copies of the deluxe edition, but their involvement now goes no further as I understand it.

 

[scrawlzine]

Posted by me earlier...

"On one hand, I can empathise with the desire for creativity outside of a political context. Having "no interest in being a part of that scene" is fine. On the other hand, this is the real world,and if you're willing to deal with Nazi sympathisers to further your art, you have to accept responsibility - you are part of that scene."

To clarify...I was talking about Nachtmystium here...not Kylesa.

 

[xsteox]

So they're going to just leave 500 or 1,000 LP's just sit there because of some spat over Kylesa playing with a band who've played with a few NSBM bands? Well done guys, that makes complete sense.. Kylesa have done nothing wrong at all.

Agreed, If the people behind the label have problems with Nachtmystium that's fine, no need to drag Kylesa into it just because they're touring together.

 

[Willie Willions]

Kylesa are nazis?!? KYLESA ARE NAZIS!

 

[scrawlzine]

The plot thickens...more Nachtmystium gossip...

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2009/02/nachtmystium_de.html

Nazi apologists...or innocent scapegoats who once hung out with the wrong crowd?

Another opinion...

"Seeing that black metal locals Nachtmystium are nuzzled in hipster embrace these days, I’m left wondering if homophobia and anti-semitism is just accepted now? Was there a memo on this I missed? Or is the heinousness of throwing “faggot” and talk of Zionist conspiracy around in interviews blunted by the wider context— i.e. the scores of NSBM-aligning bands who are essentially Nazis in crypt-face? Like Nachtmystium can’t be that bad because they are down with Isis and not putting swastikas on their clothes? Or is that no one has bothered to do their homework (you don’t have to dig farther than the second google hit for “Nachtmystium+interview” ) before putting these assholes on blast?"

http://tiny.abstractdynamics.org/archives/010315.html

 

[cesspooldublin]

wow.
Glynn, I'll probably end up sending you a long, rambling email about this later on tonight, but my first impression right now is that while I definitely respect the strength of Stachel's convictions, I'm sort of gobsmacked by it. He's essentially refusing to work with a band because of some possible past associations of a band they're touring with (on a tour that I would harbour a guess someone else paired them on) ? Wow.

That's somewhat excessive and aside from anything else slightly worrying that a DIY label would turn their back on a band over something that's essentially someone else's past mistakes. I'd like to hear the full story though before I'd condemn anyone involved. Certainly, I can vouch for the fact that Blake from Nachtmystium has traded with full on NSBM labels before, and seems like a fucking idiot to be honest, and were I to go through a bunch of old metal zines I'm sure I might be able to dig up a dodgy comment or two from him. But c'mon, what I get from this is that La Familia are kind of implying Kylesa to be nazi sympathisers, which is utterly ridiculous. By their reasoning, the message being sent is that anyone who's had any dealings with anyone connected to anything dodgy is guilty by association - certainly that would include myself and Glynn. And plenty of other folks who post here probably. Like, I wonder what La Familia would make of Boz's artwork for one thing.

On the flip side of the argument though, I was talking to Stefan from Vendetta Records about this recently and obviously there's an understandable militance against the rise of any kind of right wing music from the folks in (particularly the heavier end of) the German Scene. Apparently there has been a groundswell of right wing activity in the underground (not just metal I should add) scene there in the last few years. Knowing that, while personally feel this is kida silly to say the least, again I respect La Familia's descision to back up their convictions wether I agree or not.

I'm curious how far this goes though. What about bands like The Endless Blockade writing about Norse Mythology, being on a metal label and using occult symbolism- something that's been adopted by right wingers over the years and twisted to suit their needs - are they to be seen as dodgy? The fact that Mark McCoy has been heavily involved in Black Metal for years - should we be regarding Youth Attack records or Failures or The Oath as "the enemy" now? Shall I start pulling out the past associations of the likes of Disfear or Skitsystem? BEcause if you dig, there's surely some of this "these guys played with these guys who were right wingers in their old bands" type reasoning there.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Quote from Nachtmystium on Wikipedia:

"“In the past, we’ve had some indirect ties to labels and bands that are part of the NS scene. At one point not too many years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for NS labels or bands to trade and work with non-politically motivated bands and labels because at the end of the day, we’re all trying to promote, release, and be involved with music—all politics aside. Today it seems like there’s less of a connection, at least for me and my label. We don’t oppose people’s right to be ‘NS’ or whatever—that’s a personal choice, and if you live in the USA, you have the right to that opinion. Even though I personally, my band(s) and my label have absolutely no interest in being a part of that scene, I will ALWAYS take their side when it comes to their freedom of speech being imposed upon.”


Yet here they are saying....


http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2009/02/nachtmystium_de.html

“we are, IN NO WAY, a Nazi' band. We do NOT support such groups, political beliefs or bands that are affiliated with that world. We have canceled tours in the past and dodged working with bands and people BECAUSE they had these ideologies and we never wanted to be affiliated with it. Yet, here we are, a metal band who's members are more like hippies than your typical leather-clad metal maniacs, and we're being falsely accused of this
association once again.”
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

To me these two statements simply don't add up. You could easily assume that the first one was made in order to clarify their personal position while trying not to be offending to their 'NS' acquaintances from the past. The second statement sounds like a band that is terrified of losing any more gigs and running a mile from having ANYTHING to do with 'NS' in order to save themselves.

All of a sudden they've been forced to take a stand on either side of the fence, and I've a feeling that they won't be saying anything along the lines of "I will ALWAYS take their side when it comes to their freedom of speech being imposed upon" in relation to 'NS' bands anymore as a result of all of this.

 

[cesspooldublin]

That's exactly it. Like I said, he's an eejit. Realistically I think what's going on here is that when Blake Judd was doing Nachtmystium as a bedroom black metal band he was prone to making dumb statements like every other shitty teenage bedroom BM band in an attempt to come across as "evil" to teenage retards the world over. Now that his band are in a position to make a few quid, his past is catching up with him, and he desn't like it because he's spent a year or two trying to get away from his earlier incarnation so he can be a pop star.

Nachtmystium are woeful anyway, and always have been. I have no idea why Kylesa are touring with them anyway.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Any comment from Kylesa?

 

[scrawlzine]

To be fair, I didn't get any impression that anybody was accusing Kylesa of being Nazi sympathisers...more that the label wanted to distance itself as much as possible from anything connected to Nazism. I can respect that...as a label owner it's up to you what you put out and how you are preceived. If you feel a release compromises your own value system, it's probably not worth doing. But these are my assumptions from what was briefly mailed to me in reply about a mailorder enquiry.

Feelings on these issues definitely run higher in Europe, Germany in particular. Given that there does indeed seem to be a swelling of far-right ranks, I can empathise with a strong reactions to it.

Some wiki links below on Unholy Records, and their reputed founders - if all this is true, I can definitely see why a German DIY label wants to distance itself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unholy_Records
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(United_States)

But I pretty much agree with what Jamie says also...and this was the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Look in any direction, particularly in "underground" cirlces, and you're going to run into a connection with something unsavoury somewhere.

Where do you draw the line? Is everything acceptable now under the guise of "freedom of speech"? Should we be apolitical, or question our entertainers, mainstream & DIY?

Can't work out whether this is a complicated issue, or actually very simple. Emotive for sure.

 

[Daniel]

Someone go and start this topic on .|..|ireland. Go on...

 

[cesspooldublin]

emotive.for me anyway.

Personally, I've said this before - at this point in my life I can seperate an artist and their beliefs to a certain degree. I was doing it for years without realising it in the case of eg Bad Brains - whose homophobia appalls me. As someone who pretty much grew up with black metal I do feel like a have a slightly more in depth understanding of how that scene works than a lot of people involved in the punk scene or whatever - I don't mean that in a condescending way, it's just that I was lucky enough to be around when the likes of Emperor or whoever were still demos bands and watched the aesthetic develop. Honestly, I find a lot more of interest both musically and ideologically in that genre nowadays - BUT I'm generally pretty careful about who I buy from and what I buy.

Similarly, having had a growing interest in power electronics/noise etc over the last few years, I have a hard time sometimes distinguishing what's shock value and what's dodgy.

For me though, the core of the argument is this - I'm a 32 year old man. I'm comfortable enough with my own political beliefs that if I wish to go and listen to music or enjoy art produced by people whose political beliefs are in direct opposition to my own, that's a choice I've made and it's nobody else's business. I'm an adult and I'll decide what's morally alright for me, I won't have "the scene" or anybody else decide for me.

 

[cesspooldublin]

Someone go and start this topic on .|..|ireland. Go on...

Their board. If they don't want to talk about politics, that's Ciaran's decision. We've had this discussion before Dan and I agree with you on a lot of it, but seriously, get over it. That's kind of what I was getting at in the Amebix thread - really lads, yis are grown ups, and if you have issues with things on that board maybe you should take issue with posters directly. If I were to post every dumb Eirecore comment on there, they'd need a whole other board. Though they'd then lock that I suppose

Glynn - what Nachtmystium release is supposedly on Unholy records? I've been looking it up and can't find any..hmm..thought there was a release on Vinland Winds..