songwriting.. (1 Viewer)

[#10-7]

recently we had to split up all our songs into composer/author/arranger for copywriting them.

how do you figure this out? when does an arranger become a composer?
if i write a verse, and someone else writes one with the same melody and changes the words are they an author too?
if someone's bassline is great and adds to the song are they a composer? or are they just writing a line to what was already there?
in an intrumental song can there only be one composer if everyone writes their own parts something already written?
or just put everyone down as having written everything? its not like we're making any money...
any ideas?

 

[dudley]

are you punk rockers? split it 4 ways

not that the corpo do, mind....

 

[Alan Remorse]

hmm.. spose it can kinda depend on the music youre playin.

with us, we just say that the person who came up with the basic riffs and ideas for the song is the one who writes it. then we say My Remorse arrange them because everytime we write a song, we just say "yep, put that in 11/8 timing, and that in 6/4, that'll do"

generally we just split it 5 ways.

so eh... no idea really.

 

[Rogue]

are you punk rockers? split it 4 ways

not that the corpo do, mind....

course there's only three of you...


- smart bollox

 

[P. Littbarski]

interesting topic.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Composer

and...

http://www.vocalist.org.uk/arrangers.html

versus

http://www.vocalist.org.uk/composers.html

 

[Rogue]

recently we had to split up all our songs into composer/author/arranger for copywriting them.

how do you figure this out? when does an arranger become a composer?
if i write a verse, and someone else writes one with the same melody and changes the words are they an author too?
if someone's bassline is great and adds to the song are they a composer? or are they just writing a line to what was already there?
in an intrumental song can there only be one composer if everyone writes their own parts something already written?
or just put everyone down as having written everything? its not like we're making any money...
any ideas?

Its something ye have to work out for yerselves really. If someone feels they're doing the lion's share of writing then they get more. if what ye do is all about "songs" then the songwriter gets that credit and the others are just (?) musicians. If it's truly collaborative then split it equally.

It's too much a personal thing about how you see the creative process in your band for there to be an easy answer.

Or alternatively...give it all to charity.

here's something - http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/faq/faq11.shtml

 

[Pantone247]

if someone's bassline is great and adds to the song are they a composer? or are they just writing a line to what was already there?

it's basically the chords and the words... that's it... if ou split it out to people who contributed things too it your being nice. That's it really. See Motwon for amazing msuicans, coming up wit pure genius over basic songs and struggling to make any money at all.

In the KLF book it 'The Manual' they lament the fact that bass lines earn no royalties (when discussing Billie Jean... which is all about that bass baby). They make the amusing observation that if black people had come up with publishing copyright laws it would've been 100% royalties to the bassist everytime.

 

[P. Littbarski]

and dont forget...every song needs a Ringo.

 

[Jim Daniels]

and dont forget...every song needs a Ringo.

Classic Ringo line from way back whenever..

Interviewer: People say the Beatles are the best band in the world. Do you think you are the best drummer in the world?

Ringo: Mate, I'm not even the best drummer in the Beatles.

 

[#10-7]

so just the basic chords are the 'song'? thats kinda mad eh? i guess the lyrics and melodyline is simple enough...
its funny about basslines, i heard you can't copyright drums or bass either... songs like iggy pop's passenger would be completely different.

the difference is not the money, because the money will be split four ways anyway, but its the credit...

 

[Anthony]

I think the "cords and words" thing is the composer while all the extra bits are arrangements.

 

[cassette/tape]

talk to these people:

www.fmc-ireland.com

 

[#10-7]

talk to these people:

www.fmc-ireland.com

i did! thats why i'm confused.
they said to break everything down, including the money. thats where my problems lie. if it were up to me everything would just say 'written by the band'.*
but apperently it ends up causing more problems for everyone...


*not the band, but y'know, you get me.

 

[egg_]

Stoat splits all credit and money 3 ways, even though Stephen (the drummer) doesn't do any songwriting. If you are honest and have a big heart it won't cause you any problems, and the goodwill it creates is a big plus for everyone.

 

[dubh in seattle]

the producer. It all goes to the producer.

 

[the bongo]

if you say "written by the band" that would cause you some trouble later, if, you both got some money out of it all and changed line-up, or the band ended and you all started fighting about who was most "the band".

just put everyone's name on every line of the thing and robert's your father's brother. is that perfect enough for you, eh, mr. canzo?

 

[#10-7]

Stoat splits all credit and money 3 ways, even though Stephen (the drummer) doesn't do any songwriting. If you are honest and have a big heart it won't cause you any problems, and the goodwill it creates is a big plus for everyone.

yeah, ye see that was what was going to happen with everything anyway, but the money, if there ever is any, will be split four ways. always. but thats not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about the credit.
so far everyone's saying just put it down to everyone. it'll be grand. but the fmc say to split it up very precisely.
apparently it gives people an incentive to create idf they can see exactly how much they have previously created.

hmmm...
anyway, so money is fours. and possibly everyone will be automatically listed as being an arranger anyway. so that just leaves the songs...

i wonder how lennon and mccartney did it....?

 

[the bongo]

where the credit goes, so does the money. so the downside of being precise about who created what is that you may end up with a situation wherein some members of the band are beholden to others to give them the money. and if you ever split or get pissed off with each other, arguments may begin about what money is owed.

nothing messes things up like money, so if you want everything well within your ranks let someone else handle the splitting - by splitting credit.

as for a motivation to create, you're likely not to see any money ever so the incentive will probably remain enjoyment, tis should probably be the case even if you get loads.

 

[egg_]

but the fmc say to split it up very precisely

I think that's bullshit lawyer-speak on their part. They don't understand the creative urge too well if they think it requires an incentive. Giving credit to the whole band may be a bit unfair on the songwriter(s), but it promotes band harmony and good feeling and that is, IMHO, more important
REM didn't listen to the fmc, neither (though I hesitate to speak their name here) did U2

 

[dubh in seattle]

...or the doors. Or, the greatest band ever, Square of David (props to any you that have the rekkid-- they're going for $300 on ebay)*
Lorcanzo- you could always call the 'song' and 'arraingement' an even split, and call the lyrics by whomever wrote them. Or just keep to the even split, and if somebody leaves the band they only retain rights to stuff written(and/or recorded) while they were in the band. And agree up front that any further disputes will be settled via foxy boxing. Or boxty boxing. The technicalities of what constitutes the 'fundamental essence' of a song can be confusing-- the idea that a bass line or drum line can't be the main, original thing that defines a song is not exactly true (at least via u.s. law...) Usually the 'melody' (main vocal line) is what is defined as the 'essential element,' but of course in like a Run-DMC song like King of Rock there is no melody. And loads of tracks are nothing but a beat and a bassline. So in such a case, the bassline would count as the melody. Hope to gawd y'll never get into some courtcase hair-splitting crap over it, but say Rossco comes up with some funky-asst beat/drum solo that you decide to release as a track. What's the melody then? (besides ross grunting whilst he whacks away)The track itself would certainly be registerable as an original composition, but if that became the big hit and ross was listed as the sole composer/arrainger, the rest of yiz would get squat. And ross would start wearing a tiara and drunkenly proclaiming its 'his band,' and fire y'all and replace you with underage Japanese girls in dominatrix outfits. And you'd have to give up the glamorous band-life and like get a job fetching biscuits at 2FM or something...






*this is quite possibly the biggest lie ever.