Shannon Protest (1 Viewer)

[pete]

Originally posted by derek in another thread:
Oh yeah, and lay off the kids over there at Eirecore before one of us old timers comes wading in with armloads of media analysis quotes from Bagdikian, Jensen etc. showing that the kids are alright...

So now am I banned? Or are you afraid I'll up and do a Yoda on your ass...

You know i'm right. You know it.

oh and gwan - show me how some hippies, some god squad members, a comedy arab + pantomime camel and a juggler are going to stop the marines getting their duty free at shannon.

 

[derek]

show me how some hippies, some god squad members, a comedy arab + pantomime camel and a juggler are going to stop the marines getting their duty free at shannon.

Maybe the marines are made of harder stuff (and I doubt it)but that scares the shit out of me, I mean would you want to come back to Shannon after having seen that?

I haven't seen the footage, put up some links so i can have a read, or a look or a listen.

As for the camel, orderly protests don't get as much airtime as disorderly ones. Over here they've made orderly, polite, intelligent protests into a twice daily occurance (I shit you not) and nobody gives a toss. There's 10 seconds of images on the news wih a banal commentary that doesn't explain shit. The tv needs it's spectacle. If the protestors intention was to get people to agree with them and/or like them, then they shot themselves in the foot, and what they did was dumb, but then expecting people to automatically agree with you or support you because you protest something is dumb (and expecting RTé to show protestors in a positive light is exceptionally stupid), however if the protestors intention was to get the subject into the public arena then they succeeded. After that if people want to know more then they will. We probably agree that most people just don't give a shit and the protest won't change that. Where we disagree is that it won't change it either way. RTé have an agenda, their audience (middle aged, conservative for the most part) - remember the initial coverage from the reclaim the streets protest that turned nasty? Was it similar to the Shannon coverage? If I remmber correctly your first postsabout the Reclaim the streets protest were based on RTé reports and not too positive (I just spent 30 unsucessful mins looking for them so if I'm wrong, sorry in advance).
Now, that's the second time I've typed all that out, I'm going to bed.
Oh yeah, what other options do you reckon they have?

 

[pete]

Am in work and busy so, briefly:

Originally posted by derek
If I remmber correctly your first postsabout the Reclaim the streets protest were based on RTé reports and not too positive (I just spent 30 unsucessful mins looking for them so if I'm wrong, sorry in advance).

I don't remember to be honest. Try searching for "useless +layabout +soap dodger".

Oh yeah, what other options do you reckon they have?

If they want to raise awareness then they would probably be far better off protesting where the average man (and woman) in the street can see the protest for themselves - I would suggest a saturday afternoon or two in a number of city centres rather than a sunday morning in bogland might be more effective.

I've sort of made this point in another thread already, but i'm still not convinced that this sort of protesting actually achieves much - yes, it's a Good Thing to do, but what does it actually achieve? Does the act of protesting actually change anything? If it did, then surely the country would be run by the SWP and Youth Defence?

I mean, I can't help but wonder if there's more effective ways of achieving change than bussing 300 people (and 1 camel) down to shannon on a december morning.

i was at the michael moore talk last night, and some guy sitting behind me was giving it loads about how people wouldn't "get off their arses" to go to the protest on sunday. He was pissed off. All i could think was "Ahhh fuck you - yeah great you're a better person than me because you gave up your sunday morning - you probably juggle for peace and feel Real Good about yourself. Why don't you shut the fuck up about what you've done and show me what you've achieved."


I should probably cut these last few posts & merge them with the thread on eircore & copy it all to the politics board.

 

[silo]

mein gott! it's gearhead nation - the second coming! just when you thought it was safe to make flippant statements about political activism!

 

[pete]

Originally posted by silo
mein gott! it's gearhead nation - the second coming! just when you thought it was safe to make flippant statements about political activism!

Looks like Mr. Silo will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

 

[derek]

I don't remember to be honest. Try searching for "useless +layabout +soap dodger".

-easy. Funny, but easy...

I would suggest a saturday afternoon or two in a number of city centres rather than a sunday morning in bogland might be more effective

-Yeah, that wouldn't annoy people at all now, would it?

and some guy sitting behind me was giving it loads about how people wouldn't "get off their arses" to go to the protest on sunday. He was pissed off. All i could think was "Ahhh fuck you - yeah great you're a better person than me because you gave up your sunday morning - you probably juggle for peace and feel Real Good about yourself. Why don't you shut the fuck up about what you've done and show me what you've achieved."

Yep. That goes for the lot of us. Are you sure you're not having a little spell of "protest envy"?

 

[silo]

Originally posted by pete
Looks like Mr. Silo will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

you can be such a charmer...

(and on a related note: was it treachery to not go on the march because i was recording music for an independent release on a d.i.y. label? oh, the dilemma.)

 

[spiritualtramp]

Originally posted by pete
[/i]? Does the act of protesting actually change anything? If it did, then surely the country would be run by the SWP and Youth Defence?
[/B]

jaysus , thats a scary thought

 

[Knacker]

Originally posted by silo
you can be such a charmer...

(and on a related note: was it treachery to not go on the march because i was recording music for an independent release on a d.i.y. label? oh, the dilemma.)

Ah Jaysus Tom.... ye big lefty

 

[ant]

Originally posted by pete

If they want to raise awareness then they would probably be far better off protesting where the average man (and woman) in the street can see the protest for themselves - I would suggest a saturday afternoon or two in a number of city centres rather than a sunday morning in bogland might be more effective.

I've sort of made this point in another thread already, but i'm still not convinced that this sort of protesting actually achieves much - yes, it's a Good Thing to do, but what does it actually achieve? Does the act of protesting actually change anything? If it did, then surely the country would be run by the SWP and Youth Defence?

I mean, I can't help but wonder if there's more effective ways of achieving change than bussing 300 people (and 1 camel) down to shannon on a december morning.

First of all, I'd like to say that I appreciate you or whoever putting the important tag to my original posting on the Politics forum. On reflection, I would say that all 3 events were worth going to. Each of them had their own objectives and function. Wednesday was particularly interesting as I had never heard a first-hand account of what it was like for ordinary Iraqi people living in Baghdad under sactions.

As for Shannon, I'll admit that certain elements (the hippy stuff such as holding hands in a circle) of the day weren't to my taste but I think that people should be able to protest in whatever way they're happy with. I don't think that dressing up as an Arab and camel trivialises the issue although I can see how people who weren't there could take the whole protest less seriously on account of the way some of the protestors dress and/or behave.

I was actually quite impressed by the hippie types as they were the ones who went up to the cops and explained why we were there and asked them how they would feel if it was their families that the American military were planning to drop bombs on. Cops are people too [shock! horror!] and I would hope that they would actually consider exactly what it is that they were guarding.

I'd be a lot more ambivalent about the attempts to break down the fence - especially considering there were a load of cops waiting on the other side and they'd have no real choice but to arrest anyone who went through.

I didn't see RTE's coverage but in relation to the vandalism, it's a pity that they didn't show Ciaron O'Reilly making his speech by the memorial (or vandalised monument - depending on your point of view). He's a very hardworking, dedicated, knowledgable and compassionate guy and his speech after the Catholic Worker action was both moving and very much to the point.

I enjoyed all the different costumes and other creativity. I had already done the sober march throught the city on Saturday where more people (shoppers) would see us and be aware of what we were doing. Both kinds of march have their use. However I've done that kind of thing lots of times before and I don't consider it to be a big deal by any means. Last year we had crowds of thousands and we still got minimal media coverage (due to the lack of "action"). Shannon was my first time going out of my way (ie. leave Dublin) in order to engage in any kind of political activity. I thought that the trip was worthwhile - despite the fact that there are lots of other ways that I like to spend my time on Sundays - for two reasons:
a) We drew attention to the fact that American military aircraft are landing in Shannon - I still meet a lot of people who aren't aware of this fact.
b) Two scheduled landings continued onwards to Preswick Airport rather than stop while we were there. This makes the whole venture slightly less "symbolic".

Of course, such disruption won't make Bush - or even Bertie - think twice about what they're doing. However, large movements start off small and as the quote from the old reactionary Edmund Burke goes "Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little." [1]
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that at some stage in the future more and more people get pissed off about what's going on and eventually force the government to rethink its policy. Public demonstrations with large enough numbers have been effective in the past.

i was at the michael moore talk last night, and some guy sitting behind me was giving it loads about how people wouldn't "get off their arses" to go to the protest on sunday. He was pissed off. All i could think was "Ahhh fuck you - yeah great you're a better person than me because you gave up your sunday morning - you probably juggle for peace and feel Real Good about yourself. Why don't you shut the fuck up about what you've done and show me what you've achieved."

Hmm ... Taking the "holier than thou"approach is never a good call. Setting up a public forum such as this one where these issues can be discussed quite possibly does a lot more to raise real awareness. [Not licking up to the admin - honest!]

As for Gearhead Nation, it was one of the first publications that got me interested in politics and thinking about how the world operated.

If anyone is interested in more picturesof the day, I uploaded a few to http://gofree.indigo.ie/~antg


[1] as seen on Refueling Peace

 

[nlgbbbblth]

antg
now where have I heard that name before?

 

[Shorty]

Nuke 'em all. Take the oil! - Graffiti I saw on a toilet door.

http://www.crimethinc.com/library/yourpoli.html

I'm quite skeptical of large SWP type placard waving, banner toting protests and what they achieve, see link, and I think some new way of protest/dissent is needed.

It's so easy to criticise, but it is very hard to actually put forward something positive.

Pete, your criticism's are very good and I would mostly agree with what you have said, mostly. But see your idea you put forward of

If they want to raise awareness then they would probably be far better off protesting where the average man (and woman) in the street can see the protest for themselves - I would suggest a saturday afternoon or two in a number of city centres rather than a sunday morning in bogland might be more effective.

was quickly criticised by ant, you see it's so hard to put forward ideas that work. Maybe a new way of bringing about change is needed.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

Originally posted by ant
I don't think that dressing up as an Arab and camel trivialises the issue although I can see how people who weren't there could take the whole protest less seriously on account of the way some of the protestors dress and/or behave.

if you were protesting a war in africa, would they have
donned black face and carried spears?
i mean i hate to ask the question, but is the guy
who is neither the camels ass nor the camels head
supposed to be a 'camel jockey' or something?

how visual gags which play on dumb jaded
stereotypes are a good thing is beyond me.

peace
andy (sounding some what p.c.)


edited by pete: that bleedin camel's too big - here's the link instead: http://gofree.indigo.ie/~antg/arab_with_camel.jpg

 

[silo]

Originally posted by Knacker
Ah Jaysus Tom.... ye big lefty

keep it fake.

 

[silo]

Originally posted by ant
Two scheduled landings continued onwards to Preswick Airport rather than stop while we were there. This makes the whole venture slightly less "symbolic". [/URL]

this point is an important one.

you stop wars and injustice from happening by raising the financial, political, legal and ideological cost of the war for the perpetrators; ending wars and injustice does not happen because you're making the powers-that-be aware of some moral point that they were previously unaware of.

in the small way shown in the quote, the shannon approach directly contributed to a raising of the cost of state terrorism for its perpetrators. apart from that, it was largely a damp squib, and much can be done to improve the way things go next time, if there is a next time. let's not also forget the gruntwork of monitoring being done by refuelling peace et al, who are pursuing the raising-the-cost method through monitoring and awareness.

lots more to say but i'm in work so that's it or now.

 

[Willie Willions]

My opinion is - more things need to be kicked in.

 

[steve albino]

it's all goin' on over on the Eirecore board