Science Peeps. (1 Viewer)

[Dixer]

Ok, I'm looking for the name of a scientific principle that says that the act of studying a thing alters the thing being studied and therefore accurate resultant data is impossible. Like, wildlife researchers, studying animals in their natural habitat. The presence of the researcher alters the envirnoment. I'm toying with the idea that its the Heisenberg principle that I'm thinking of but it doesnt quite seem to correspond with what I'm thinking of. If anyone knows better, mebbe y'd share the intellectual wealth.
Rep points for whoever leads me in the right direction.
Every stick needs a carrot.

P.S. just using the wildlife example as an analogy. The principle should apply at atomic level too. I think. Probably is Heisenberg.

 

[krystal]

Just ask Margaret Mead for her take on it.

 

[egg_]

The Heisenberg Principle strictly only applies to quantum stuff, I think - when I learned about it, it translated to "you can't know the exact momentum and position of an electon simulaneously" (because the act of measuring the momentum changes the position, and the act of measuring the position changes the momentum). I'd imagine it can be expressed in much more general terms than that, but like I said probably only applies in the strict sense to stuff at the quantum level - the wildlife thing you mention is analogous to Heisenberg, but I wouldn't think they have the same cause, and so there's probably a different name for it

 

[guy of the tiger]

yep its because the wavelength of light is greater than the physical size of the particle your trying to observe...wait now im getting confused again

The Heisenberg Principle strictly only applies to quantum stuff, I think - when I learned about it, it translated to "you can't know the exact momentum and position of an electon simulaneously" (because the act of measuring the momentum changes the position, and the act of measuring the position changes the momentum). I'd imagine it can be expressed in much more general terms than that, but like I said probably only applies in the strict sense to stuff at the quantum level - the wildlife thing you mention is analogous to Heisenberg, but I wouldn't think they have the same cause, and so there's probably a different name for it

 

[P. Littbarski]

Is it true to say that you can only know one stat, such as speed or mass, of a particle or an object at any one point in time and that, using quantum physics, scientists attempt to anticipate the other states of an object.

about the other thingy... the emic vs. etic model (outside looking in vs. insiders view) may be helpful although it is a different approach.

 

[egg_]

Is it true to say that you can only know one state, such as speed or mass, of a particle or an object at any one point in time and that, using quantum physics, scientists attempt to anticipate the other states of an object.

Not quite
As far as I remember, it's only certain variables (e.g. position/momentum) that interfere with each other in this way. Quantum physics can't help you tell the momentum of a particle if you know its position - in fact, according to the orthodox interpretation of quantum physics, if an electron has an exact momentum then it just doesn't have an exact position (and vice versa)

 

[Super Dexta]

er.. in sociolinguistics it's called the Observer's Paradox. no atoms there, though.

 

[pete]

schrodingers cat

 

[MDR]

The Hawthorne effect. Workers in Hawthorne, USA were being studied to see the effect of lights changes in the factory on their productivity, but because they were being studied they all just worked harder whatever the light. Basically, subjects being studied behave differently when they are aware they are being studied.

Is that what you're looking for?

I actually toyed with the idea of using this as the title of my second album as it would be the first time i had written songs knowing people would be listening to them.

 

[MDR]

ooops I completely misunderstood that you were talking about atomic shit n'all. In which case I know nathin.

 

[egg_]

I actually toyed with the idea of using this as the title of my second album as it would be the first time i had written songs knowing people would be listening to them.

Ha ha good idea!
Are you back from holidays then?

 

[guy of the tiger]

Isn't that where you put a cat in a box and when you close the lid he splits into two, quantum, cats? One of which pisses in your box and the other tears up your sweater. But you will never know which one it really is until you open the lid and it 'falls' into one of the slots. However if you close the lid, throw the box into the river and never think about it again the cat drowns

schrodingers cat

 

[ratmonkey]

Any cat that's dead and alive at the same time is some cat.


Pretty sure (by which I mean "came across vague reference to and was mildly interested but couldn't be arsed following up") that Schroedinger robbed the whole cat thing from Nietzsche and just put quantum talk over it instead of existential or whatever talk Nietsche had on it.