Official Tour De France thread 2006. (6 Viewers)

[joematic]

thats more like it! at last a proper TDF stage... just like back in the 80's.

Malliot Jaune loses 10 minutes. solo break wins on one of the toughest mountains. attacks all over the gaff.

reminds me of the Ras Dun Na NGall a few weeks ago....

 

[inspector horse]

thats more like it! at last a proper TDF stage... just like back in the 80's.

Malliot Jaune loses 10 minutes. solo break wins on one of the toughest mountains. attacks all over the gaff.

reminds me of the Ras Dun Na NGall a few weeks ago....

ahhh! i miss a stage and all this happens, shite... i know theres another mountain stage and all could change again but anyone know what pereiro vs other likely contenders is like in the time trial?

 

[IFF]

well they still have a mountain stage (though not a big one. highest point is 1700m. and it's about 7 Km from the top of the climb to the finish)

but let's assume the top (that is everyone within 4 minutes) finish together. dangerous assumption

the standings is:

General classification after stage 16

1 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 74.38.05
2 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 1.50
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 2.29
4 Cyril Dessel (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 2.43
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 2.56
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 3.58

now there positions from the first time trial where as follows: it should be noted one is 52 (first)and one is 56km (final)

23. Peiero 2.40 from Gonchar. .
18. Sastre 2.10 from Gonchar. -30 from Peiero
8. Kloden 1.43 from Gonchar. -57 from Pereiro
38. Dessel 3.42 from Gonchar. +1.02 from pereiro
11. Evans 1.49 from Gonchar. -51 from Peireiro
9. Menchov 1.44 from Gonchar. -56 from Periero

so overall if everyone has the exact same fomr as that day and feeling the exactly the same (in proportion to every one else) and no one loses time today is:

1. Peireo
2. Sastre @1.20
3. Kloden @ 1.32
4. Evans @ 2.05
5. Menchov @ 3.02
6. Dessel @3.45

i'm sure i've made 5 mistakes when doing the overall standings and it also relies on too many assumptions to be an accurate chart

 

[inspector horse]

that was some ride by landis , everything turned on its head again, great stuff

 

[IFF]

it was a very good ride

though how many ewater bottles did he take from the car? about 1,000

 

[inspector horse]

it was a very good ride

though how many ewater bottles did he take from the car? about 1,000

yeh about that, he nearly drowned on the descent

 

[nuke terrorist]

two of the best tour stages i've ever seen in and both in succession.
landis actually gained a few seconds on the joux plane on pereiro which is amazing considering how long he had been in the lead and he lost 2 minutes only to sastre which he was able to increase his lead on again on the descent to morzine.
the other s were opening up gaps and then being shut down and overtaken again by the riders they had passed which is strange and shows how much the tactic book had been thrown out.
cunego has turned 12 minute plus deficit in the young rider standings a few days ago into a 5 second lead on fothen.
mc Ewen led in the groupetto at morzine which was 81 riders strong at 52 minutes down and the previous day it was 44 minutes down with 78 riders and theres only 143 riders left in the race.
dessl must be the strangest rider in the race.
before this season cyril dessel was another anonymous rider i knew little about but he took what seems to have been the first UCI win of his career in the tour de med. in february and at 31 this is just his second tour ( he was 113 th in 2002) his best result in big mountainous stage race before this year as far as i can find was 9th in the dauphine a few years ago having being pro since 2000. he also was second in the french champs. at one point too. other than that his results seem to be thin on the ground.
his brilliant riding in the tour was certainly a surprise but when i add all this up i 'm just waiting to hear some bad news about him as much as i'd like him to be the real deal.

 

[nuke terrorist]

so ekimov has decided to retire - i remember his first tour in 1990 and he won a stage with a late attack in 1991! one more tour and he would have equalled zoetemelk's record of 16. i think ekimov finished the lot too.

ullrich is surely in a similar position at least now certainly he's been sacked along with sevilla.
brard and hunter who both started the TT on saturday didn't start on sunday due to injury. very hard luck.
and cunego who did such a poor TT in the giro he lost more like twice as much time in a much shorter TT and said he thought TT's should be scrapped ' in does great time trial shock'.
i think it was the best tour i've seen and sets a benchmark for exciting racing for the future. (i reckon it was better than 1989).

jens voigt who is a representative of the riders association said he favoured a DNA bank where pro tour rider riders hair, blood etc. samples could be stored during and for ten years beyond their careers ( riders on french teams must give these samples several time a year).

here a few things i would like to see the UCI adopt i think they have been put forward in some form in the media before but rarely.

- as i said above BLOOD AND URINE SAMPLE SHOULD BE STORED AND TESTED IN AUTHORISED TEST WHEN NEW TESTS BECOME AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE.
lance armstrong's EPO positive samples from 1999 were not tested in a sanctioned test and as procedures were not followed he could not be found guilty according to and independent legal investigation however it failed to look into whether the actual tests were valid. points such as armstrong not being notified were the problem. so thus storing these samples which we were at the time told would eventually catch EPO dopers was a waste of time.

- RESULTS OF BLOOD TESTS ALWAYS BE MADE PUBLIC.
the average blood cell count in a healthy person is 42-43% the UCI imposed limit is a very generous 50%. a high red blood cell count can be a indicator of blood doping and really a healthy person shouldn't have a high hematocrit according to a doctor i spoke too. when pantani was thrown off the giro in 1999 for this offence it was leaked to the press afterwards that several other riders tested including paolo savoldelli who took over the race lead instead had limits just under 50% ( p.s. was a lot closer to 50% than 49%).
hematocrits should always drop in a three week race but in another 2001 giro the average was 45-46% but one poor sod tested was obviously too honest for his own good a he tested a mere 39%.

- ALL RIDERS MEDICAL FILES SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO CYCLING AND ANTI DOPING AUTHORITIES.
this should be written into all riders contracts. there should be no doctor patient confidentially privilege for professional athletes at least as far as medicines they take. athletes MUST disclose all medicines they take. (i'm not sure how this would apply to doctors).

- RIDERS FOUND GUILTY OF DOPING SHOULD BE FINED IN RELATION TO THEIR SALARY.
this should also be part of the pro tour charter ( i.e. in all riders contracts)
a guilty rider should be fined all of his wages over say 50,000 euro per
year. this would not preclude other big fines for for high earners or people found guilty of doping over a long period of time all relative to a riders earnings.

is there any will to do all this?
i doubt it to put it mildly.

 

[IFF]

i think the last point, especially, is a very good one

kind of like how the scandinavians dish ot speeding fines

 

[snap-apple]

Great tour - those last two stages in the Alps especially. I sat down on Thursday morning in front of TG4 to see how things were shaping up, Ponak on the front of the peleton, then Landis going out on his own on the first climb, unbelievable. That was me stuck to the spot for 4 hours... It really was anyone's for the taking at different points. Kloden I think will be disappointed that he couldn't do more to limit Landis' gain on Thursday's stage - if he had had the energy to go with Sastre he would've had every chance of winning overall. But can't take it away from Landis, he more than earned it and that stage will go down in history.

 

[IFF]

from - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5218574.stm


Tour rider in failed doping test
cycling
A rider in this year's Tour de France has failed a doping test, according to the International Cycling Union (UCI).

Neither the rider's identity nor the date when the test was conducted were released by the sport's governing body.

The positive test, carried out by France's national anti-doping laboratory at Chatenay-Malabry, will be the first from the race if confirmed.

----

eurosport have the same story but cycklingnews hasn't anything on it yet

and no one has announced the name yet

 

[snap-apple]

They've named Landis now. What can you say?

 

[joematic]

it was kinda inevitable!
that stage he won was a little too superhuman.

testosterone apparently. maybe he was just horned up?

 

[IFF]

yes a very devastating blow for cycling. the only positive from it is that the cheaters are no being caught

but think of it this way: heras won the vuelta then failed a drug test, basso won the giro then was implicated in operacion puerto and now landis wins the tour then fails a drug test

and probably the last procycling magazine that hasn't had a rider who was implciated in operacion puerto or failed a drugs test is Tom Boonen back in march (april 2006 issue)

the next one will likely have gone to press with no changes possible and it'll probably (i'd put money on it) be floyd landis with stories about his "brilliant ride" to morzine which by the time the readers get it they will know it was fradulently achieved or be in deniaL about it

 

[joematic]

...on using testosterone patches for recovery....

"Androderm patches are useless they fill your body with water and make the legs heavy," he writes. "They will however cause a big stiff painful erection and it lasts for hours."

so I'm off to the pharmacy lads...

 

[Osama Van Halen]

BARRY BONDS
BEN JOHNSON
MICHELLE SMITH
LANDIS



ASSHOLES

 

[nuke terrorist]

well it's not really a shock at this stage is it ?

most of the big names in the Phonak squad over the years have fallen by the doping wayside -
Camenzind, Hamilton, Santiago Perez. AND both Botero and Jose Guiterrez (the one who recently finshed second in the giro not the other one) are both named in operacion puerto.

the big shock is that this the first a tour winner was caught during the race. i mean it's amazing it took until now nearly a hundred tours when you think about it. unless you count the delgado incident in 1988.
morzine was in the ' if sounds too good to be true then it probably is' category or what i call 'Good Memories Gone Bad'. the story of cyclings big stars really.
Pat McQuaid and the UCI would have us believe there doing nearly everything they can but as i said on the last page even someone like me can come up with ideas that would make a big difference that are not in the laws when they should be.

apparently doping has been around since the ancient greek olympics and a cyclist died in a doping incident inthe 1890's. the dopers are always at least a step ahead and will always exist but we have to be able to say things are as difficult as possible for them.
this time is the last chance and if the cycling authorities start to relax (yet again) having paid lip service to what has happened in the last year and don't take every measure necessary to stop doping and inspire confidence then there may be little hope in a leader lees sport.
not by along shot have they done enough especially in spain in particular .

81 riders came in 52 minutes down on Landis in morzine many of those guys are honest and i will still be interested in cycling while these honest guys are there even if they continually get trashed by dopers. the guys like this are the real stars and i NEVER forget their efforts.

former tour de france joint director and french cycling president Daniel Baal was a person i hoped would take over running the tour after JM le Blanc he brought in strict anti doping regulations for french cyclists which to a high degree in france cleaned up the sport in france. however he no longer works in cycling and didn't visit the tour even though it went through his home city saying :"the tour has no sporting credibility".
we need more people like Daniel Baal.
as Landis claims be innocent then why if he had an naturally high testosterone level (as he is trying to claim) was it not noticed much earlier in his his career ??

 

[IFF]

well it's not really a shock at this stage is it ?

most of the big names in the Phonak squad over the years have fallen by the doping wayside -
Camenzind, Hamilton, Santiago Perez. AND both Botero and Jose Guiterrez (the one who recently finshed second in the giro not the other one) are both named in operacion puerto.

plus according to the cyclingnews feature, Sascha Urweider of the team earlier this year also tested positive for testosterone!!!!! though with a girly name like Sascha who can blame him for taking testosterone. he must have been a mistake

This is the ninth phonak rider to be emboiled. though i think it could be no. 10 as they had a rider excluded by the team from last years vuelta onn the last friday stage last year after the rider failed their own controls. i just can't remember the riders name

as Landis claims be innocent then why if he had an naturally high testosterone level (as he is trying to claim) was it not noticed much earlier in his his career ??

well he's only 30. you know only about 7 years of doping controls in the professional sport (and probably some in amateur rings of the sport). it's very understandable how it'd be overlooked

^^ sarcasm

 

[La La]

i dont understand why a high testosterone level is treated this way - there was no actual doping agent found in his system was there?

i abhor athletes who cheat; this is really a genuine query as i don't know much about this sorta thing.

 

[joematic]

i dont understand why a high testosterone level is treated this way - there was no actual doping agent found in his system was there?

because the level of hormone was unnaturally high. Actually - they don't check for levels of one particular hormone - cause some men, like Brian Oak for example, can have very high levels of male hormones. The doping controol checks ratios of the hormones testosterone/epitestosterone. In most men this is 1:1. The UCI have set a limit of 4:1 for signs of doping. Landis was apparently 11:1.

All this highlights the complexity of doping controls in sport - and particularly cycling. Its now common practice for doctors to work out ways of enhancing performance of athletes by increasing levels of naturally occuring substances such as hormones and red blood cells. so the doping controls then have to work out what is a normal level and set a limit. anything over the limit 'indicates' the use of performance enhancing drugs. but, like you say, they won't ever find any illegal substance in the system - just indications that they 'may' have been used.

I'm wasted in computers, wasted. should have been a scientist.....
!zed