Obama's huge package (1 Viewer)

[Froog]

trying to get my head around the new 800 billion stimulus bill. Is this the right thing to do? is it the best solution for severe recession? has it worked in the past? how much of a gamble is it, will people spend more or just save?

 

[robitusson]

Isn't Capitalism supposed to be all about "free" markets with no state intervention?

 

[Wobbler]

Isn't Capitalism supposed to be all about "free" markets with no state intervention?

Well, pure capitalism, which has never existed.

 

[broken arm]

there are communities in Wales that are still suffering the impacts of the recession in the 80s where the policy was to not spend or invest.

I would say, as a starting principle, that recession is a market failure and a decent enough rationale for state intervention.

 

[platters]

it's a massive gamble though, isn't it? They just have to do something quickly and hope it pays off.

my understanding is that we need this to work for our own 7 billion into BOI & AIB to work. I'm not sure if I'm correct tho.

 

[broken arm]

it's a massive gamble though, isn't it?

Yea, it's complicated shit but you have to spend moeny to make money.. .|..|

 

[flashback]

Lots of people will tell you lots of things.
And basically no one really knows, because no one has seen this sort of shite before.

I think the moral of the story is the whole money thing is a massive confidence trick. Its all magic money and numbers in computers. It's not real.

If people think everything is ok, everything is ok. And if they think everything is fucked, it is.

Probably though its a good idea. He says he's going to fix up the roads and bridges, green up the place, and try to get the housing market into shape.
Sound. All of the above are bollixed in the US.


The mad thing is, even if magically you knew what the perfect thing to do was, if you were able to make the right decision every time, even then things might be fucked.
If you are 100% correct, this only has X% chance of working.

Also, you can;t know what would have happened had some other choice would have been made.

It all makes my head hurt.

 

[broken arm]

 

[broken arm]

also, there was been suggestions that the Iraq War could have cost $3 TRILLION.

for a war.

no jobs, no homes, just a load of dead people.

 

[flashback]

also, there was been suggestions that the Iraq War could have cost $3 TRILLION.

for a war.

no jobs, no homes, just a load of dead people.

ah here, you have to offset that number against all the advertising revenue generated on those news networks.
Goldmine broken arm man.

Ah no. I mean, some of that money went into arms industry, which paid for a lot of people's jobs. Its not like every penny spent on cruise missiles vanishes into thin air.


Still. It is completely fucked. The Republicans are lecturing everyone now on Fiscal Responsibility.

Amazing.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

A little crass from the NY Times I thought

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us/politics/22budget.html

February 22, 2009
It's bigger than a breadbin, but will it work?
Obama Planning to Slash Deficit, Despite Stimulus Spending

By JACKIE CALMES
WASHINGTON — After a string of costly bailout and stimulus measures, President Obama will set a goal this week to cut the annual deficit at least in half by the end of his term, administration officials said. The reduction would come in large part through Iraq troop withdrawals and higher taxes on the wealthy.
Mr. Obama’s budget outline, which he will release on Thursday, will also confirm his intention to deliver this year on ambitious campaign promises on health care and energy policy.
The president inherited a deficit for 2009 of about $1.2 trillion, which will rise to more than $1.5 trillion, given initial spending from his recently enacted stimulus package. His budget blueprint for the 2010 fiscal year, which begins Oct. 1, will include a 10-year projection showing the annual deficit declining to $533 billion in the 2013 fiscal year, the last year of his term, officials said.
While that suggests a two-thirds reduction, exceeding Mr. Obama’s goal of at least half, advisers note that the current deficit as a starting point is inflated by one-time expenses to stimulate the economy.
Measured against the size of the economy, the projected $533 billion shortfall for 2013 would mean a reduction from a deficit equal to more than 10 percent of the gross domestic product — larger than any deficit since World War II — to 3 percent, which is the level that economists generally consider sustainable. Mr. Obama will project deficits at about that level through 2019, aides said.

 

[flashback]

jacking up taxes on the wealthy is a winner alright.
but, pulling troops in Iraq is going to save fuck all if you are deploying them straight back into Afghanistan.


Ah. He's a smarter dude than I am I suppose.
Its nice to be able to say that about the President of the United States.

 

[Gambra]

Let me just say I :heart: broken arms infotainment graphics that appear in his posts.

 

[ann post]

yeah i'm with you, keep it up broken arm. is that one on your information thread?