does my mixer have too few inputs? (2 Viewers)

[jimbredin]

hi i recently acquired one of the yamaha 10/2 mixers mentioned in an earlier thread as an early xmas present but am quickly coming to the realisation that if i'm going to do any recording of my band this "10/2" baby aint gonna do the trick. band consists of singer 2x guitarists bass and drums, all very easy except the drums.

is a second mixer concentrating on the drums alone a feasible solution ie running one mixer into another?

should i investigate returning it for a mixer with more inputs?

suppose i should mention the band are only getting started, haven't got a huge budget but want to record some kind of demo.

also, are monitors absolutely necessary for this kind of low budget scenario? is there such a thing as monitor headphones that are cheaper?

thanks,

james.

 

[chutneyfarmer]

It's totally possible to record a full band with 10 inputs. If ya wanna record the band live in a room, try 4 mics on the kit (kik, snare, 2 overheads) Bass amp (+if possible also a direct input from the amp too), a mic on each guitar (about 2 feet away from the speakers. With your spare channels you could try setting up some form of room mic to pick up the room sound of the instruments or experiment by placing it somewhere near the other instruments (on the floor etc). Try spreading the instruments out as much as possible (within reason of course).

I wouldn't recommend trying to record the vocals live with the rest of the instruments unless it's a song with just acoustic guitars on it or something.

That's just a totally basic description of what you could do. There's a million other ways you could try it (including your suggestion of a sub-mixer for the drums) but it is TOTALLY possible for you to use that mixer for recording your band

 

[jimbredin]

hi thanks for replying but ya see my problem with this mixer is that for a few of these "10" inputs you can only use one at a time from a pair. to see what i mean see the picture. there are only 4 mic inputs(XLR) so i dont know if i can really have 10 inputs running at the same time. i reckon i can have four xlr inputs and 2 line ins, but judging by what you said that aint enough!!!

 

[egg_]

What are you recording onto? If you're going direct into your PC (2 tracks) it looks like this isn't going to do - however if you've an 8 track (with enough mic inputs) it'll be fine, just use the mixer for the drums

 

[aoboa]

Someone is selling an Allen & Heath GS3v console on this very site for €750 ono.
48 real inputs - 24 tape and 24 line/mic.
24 Direct outputs.
8 Bus.

 

[aoboa]

That Yamaha only has 6 real inputs and only 4 XLR - so 4 mic and 2 line i/ps.
If you're happy with doing a stereo drum mix straight to tape then you should be okay but you're not going to be able to record other instruments at the same time.
The only way you could do this would depend on the aux's being prefade.
Mic drums i/p 1-4 -> straight to stereo bus.
DI the bass into line i/p 5 and send to tape via aux 1 but keep the fader down so it's not going to the stereo bus.
DI the guitar into line i/p 6 and send to tape via aux 2 but keep the fader down so it's not going to the stereo bus.

So you record the drums from stereo bus to 2 tracks, record bass from Aux 1 to one track and record guitar from Aux 2 to 1 track.
The guitars will probably end up as guides cos you'll want to rerecord them using the XLR desk channel and a mic etc.

If the aux's are post fade you're f**ked.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

[font=Verdana, Arial]Soundcraft E12 Mixing Desk.New, ideal for live or soundcraft com, #265. Contact: 086-1029296.[/font]
[font=Verdana,MS Sans Serif,Arial]Conn and Leinster

A solid mixer for a decent price if it's still available.

Or, you could head into a rehearsal space and use their PA mixer for a few extra in's and out's. Don't forget that you should be able to use the inserts on your mixer as driect out's to your recording machine. I second that 'what are you recording to' emotion from earlier. If we knew how many inputs you had we could probably suggest a winning plan.
[/font]

 

[jimbredin]

Sorry i forgot to mention that im recording(or at least i plan to be) into a pc.

aoboa, i didn't quite understand your post, i'm a beginner here so could you spell it out a little more please? i would greatly appreciate it.
i'm guessing i/p is input and DI means Digital Input?

i'm starting to think that i'm gonna have to return this mixer for one with more mic inputs.

btw i have an audigy 2, please don't say i'll need to splash out on some (other) fancy sound card as well?

this recording is expensive stuff!!

thanks for all the replies,

james.

 

[aoboa]

Considering the soundcard and the desk I reckon your best best is to record everything individually.
The Audigy isn't ideal for recording. It's more of a gaming/home theatre card - afaik it's got 2 stereo inputs and a mic input.

Yeah, i/p is input... DI is direct inject - DI box etc... basically something that brings the output level of a guitar up to the level needed by your desk.

Your setup won't allow you to record everything at once unless you record and mix it all down live to 2 stereo tracks using two little mixers.

To be honest though, amazing records have been made with far more basic and restrictive equipment than you have.
Mess around and try recording everything individually (requires serious practive by the band though to get right). You should be able to get decent results.

 

[Crowbar0]

Hi, I'm selling my Soundcraft Spirit SX (one of these: http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=25)
for €500 ono.
It's in brand new condition, and comes fully flight cased with a custom built hardcase, so it's fullt transportable and protected, and it brilliant for live and studio work.
They're €600 new from thomann.de and the hardcase cost another €200.
You interested in something like this?

 

[aoboa]

Great little desks, very flexible.
Rednecks 'Cut You Heart...' was recorded on one of these.

 

[Pantone247]

I use the Yamaha Mg 10/2 and I find it aces.

firstly I think you're assuming that your band will record live, as in everyone playing at the same time, and if this is the case then you need a bigger desk.

but if you just use the four XLR and preamps to record your kit, then the bass, then mic up the amps... over dubbing bit by bit you'll find the 10/2 is perfect.

For a variety of reasons I would recomend overdubbing bit by bit, unless you are willing to buy a great desk, find an amazing sounding room and happene to be exceptional musicians.

the choice, as they say, it your's

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

For a variety of reasons I would recomend overdubbing bit by bit, unless you are willing to buy a great desk, find an amazing sounding room and happene to be exceptional musicians.

The one thing unexceptional musicians are going to be bad at is playing their parts without everyone else to take cues from. The last thing they need to be doing is changing how they've played music since they first started playing it. You don't need great gear, or a great room to capture what happens when people MAKE MUSIC together.

 

[Pantone247]

The one thing unexceptional musicians are going to be bad at is playing their parts without everyone else to take cues from. The last thing they need to be doing is changing how they've played music since they first started playing it. You don't need great gear, or a great room to capture what happens when people MAKE MUSIC together.

First off I rrreally hope you got to see Year of the Horse in the IFI this weekend, unbe-fucking-lievable... amazing live footage of Crazy Horse and great shit from the 70's and some awesome interviews... you have to see this film...

And yeah after reading Shaky and hearing Zuma I was sold on getting "closer to the source" and all that, but I just don't know these days... I think it needs a really exceptional group with an amazing vibe to get that together, or at least to make it sound "wow" like Cowgirl on Everyone Knows, and you can hear Danny litterly drifting his fingers across the strings for the next note... the tension is amazing...

But I just think that's a one in a million kinda vibe y'know...

In saying this mostly I'm playing everything myself when I record and I guess it's what I'm used too... and I'm lazy too... is it bad to need to take a break halfway thru playing the guitar for a 3 minute pop song???




On a totally unrelated topic you should hear how funny my brand new packing box "kick drum" and Big Muff box with tambourine taped to it "snare drum" sound... I've been giggling all weekend at them...

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

It's not so much a Neil Young thing - I record bands like this all the time, man. There's too many records to even mention that were recorded the 'old-fashioned' way. In fact, the whole layering a song up bit-by-bit thing only started big time in the seventies when people were so mortally afraid of bleed that they built totally dead studios and then used Plates for all their ambience. Thank god the plates sounded great

Don't be fooled by engineers telling you that you HAVE to record everything part by part. It shouldn't be something exceptional when a band plays a good take of one of their own songs.

 

[aoboa]

I think most engineers these days agree that the best way to record is 'live' even if a lot of the parts have to be re-recorded later.
Fact is ,this Yamaha desk isn't gonna be able to that very well.

 

[Pantone247]

I just want to say at this point

Steely Dan

I don't even know what I mean, but if we're talking live versus overdubs they have to get a mention...

I guess I have a preference for over dubbing, and I agree lots of folk track live, or at least track live and overdub on to that. And it works lots, maybe I just have terrible visions of the rubbish bass player, or the rubbish someone, grinding sessions to a halt cause he can't make the chord change everytime... it's probably not that bad at all.... maybe I'm the rubbish one holding everything up...

Worth saying too that 'live' sounding records are back in fashion in a big way, the Kings of Leon album is really open and roomy sounding, the Franz Ferdi and the Concretes record too, tight but really lively... The bloody Libertines record is a tin can being bash in an echoy metal shed of bleed...

course the hilarious mid 80's pomp of the Killers could end all that again...

 

[egg_]

We once recorded a song 'live' with a single £40 mic in a cowshed, and it sounded deadly ... pity the song was only half written and kinda died out after a while. Any subsequent attempts I've made at 'live' recording haven't really come off ... mostly on account of room-sound problems

 

[Pantone247]

We once recorded a song 'live' with a single £40 mic in a cowshed, and it sounded deadly ... pity the song was only half written and kinda died out after a while. Any subsequent attempts I've made at 'live' recording haven't really come off ... mostly on account of room-sound problems

I Wish I Was Stoned?



but serious, what about that song you recorded in the central hotel



HO HO HO!!

 

[egg_]

Oh yeah, forgot about that
Pretty fucking hungover today, had the Stoat Album Wrap Party last night