All hell seems to have broken loose.. (1 Viewer)

[Latex lizzie]

According to the guardian today one of the witnesses described how a mine fell from a basket ball hoop(shoddily attched by wire) on to one of the hostages heads, she brushed it off and this set off a chain reaction of explosions. Anti personel mines at close range can vapourise people into nothing..(In peru last year a bunch of soldiers set off cache of mines accidentally on a jungle trail and the lead twelve were turned in a mist. All they recovered were a few rags.)Also fire can ruduce a body to almost nothing if it is hot enough so.. I dont think this would account however for the 180. I think that mostly they didn't know how many people were in the school at the time. Loads of bodies they do have are yet to claimed. I guess they will never know. The area was never properly taped off for forensic examination with relatives immediately after combing the wreckage for loved ones. No telling what evidence has been corrupted or lost. this would have never happened in the west.Civilians were not allowed near the site of the twin towers for ages after.

 

[spiritualtramp]

According to the guardian today one of the witnesses described how a mine fell from a basket ball hoop(shoddily attched by wire) on to one of the hostages heads, she brushed it off and this set off a chain reaction of explosions. Anti personel mines at close range can vapourise people into nothing..(In peru last year a bunch of soldiers set off cache of mines accidentally on a jungle trail and the lead twelve were turned in a mist. All they recovered were a few rags.)Also fire can ruduce a body to almost nothing if it is hot enough so.. I dont think this would account however for the 180. I think that mostly they didn't know how many people were in the school at the time.

I don't understand where they are getting this 180 figure from. before the place was stormed they were claiming there was only 300 people or so held hostage. and they only started taking details properly from people yesterday. they're so unorganised.

I'd be interested in knowing how many hostages were killed by accident by the troops that stormed the place. and there was residents of the town going into the school with guns when it all kicked off so I imagine a few of them were killed by troops thinking they were Chechens. it was such a messy operation and I'd say quite a few people died by error.

 

[Latex lizzie]

Oh god yes. they were firing tank shells at the building (some of which were unexploded as late as yesterday sappers were working on them as relatives shifted through the building!!!)

Guardian- "A policeman crouched next to an unexploded tank shell part buried in the schools playground, among the stream of visitors."dont tell anyone about this" he said."otherwise there will be a panic" "we've called a sapper and he will get rid of it soon" an hour later it was gone.

Tank shells are not exactly a descriminitive means of taking out hostage takers..not really a surgical method. The political fallout of a botch job like this should be huge.At one stage locals were firing their own guns in conjunction with troops. High powered rifle round would have gone through the buildings like cheese. Apparently the hostages were used as "human sandbags" so it goes without saying that those who were trying to liberate the people inside probably killed many

 

[Latex lizzie]

http://www.iht.com/articles/107636.html

preservation of evidence in cases such as this....cant see this happening in russia somehow.

 

[spiritualtramp]

Oh god yes. they were firing tank shells at the building

I didn't know this. and despite my already low expectations of the Russian army I am actually shocked.

The political fallout of a botch job like this should be huge.

which is why Putin blamed it on International terrorism rather than admit it might have something to do with Russias track record with Chechnya. those ten arabs amoung the hostage takers didn't exist according to the BBC.

 

[Latex lizzie]

..you could smell that a mile off. None of the faces of the "arabs" have been put on t.v. or newspapers. They will quite literally be buried and dead men as they say dont talk. Giving the russian government a free hand to say what they want.There are already talks of freedom of movement, border restrictions, putin himself has said on russian t.v. that "russians cannot live in as carefree manner as before" huh? what? ..once again freedom will be the biggest casualty long term. A return to some form of quasi police state could be on the cards in russia again...

 

[nokia]

this shit's even more unbelievable than sep 11...that tv footage...was i dreaming?

 

[Latex lizzie]

Sadly no.

 

[spiritualtramp]

I find this footage really creepy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3636196.stm

I wonder how in hell the film survived, considering they can't even find loads of peoples bodies?

 

[Latex lizzie]

It's weird alright..Must be awful for the families having to watch the terror on the kids faces.

here is a step by step account of the whole thing from start to finish.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/world/04/russian_s/html/1.stm

 

[spiritualtramp]

I thought that footage from that protest yesterday in Moscow was bizzare.

I know it is a pretty grim occasion and the country is in mourning and all but it seemed so totally lifeless. and 100,000 people isn't very much for a city whose population is 8 million. compared to the massive energy of the protests in Spain after the Madrid bombings it seemed really staged. there were ads for it on the telly and everything.

I wonder if there were many signs in the crowd giving out at Putin for his policy in Chechnya and the way the hostage stuff was handled ?

 

[Latex lizzie]

according to the bbc yesterday(on tele so no linky) the event was stage managed by the government. Putins "youth Groups" made up the numbers.

one quote was " we are so saddened by all this..we have nowhere else to go so we came here" (red sq.)

I think the thing traditionally in russia is not to show grief outwardly but to be strong and have resolve. May account for the weird/low turnout too.

 

[spiritualtramp]

journalist poisoned.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1299077,00.html

bloody hell.

 

[broken arm]

journalist poisoned.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1299077,00.html

bloody hell.

that was on the news last night. it was slipped in after a mention of the other chief editor of another paper that was forced to resign over comments made.

 

[spiritualtramp]

that was on the news last night. it was slipped in after a mention of the other chief editor of another paper that was forced to resign over comments made.

I didn't see it. I only spotted it now. I've seen her interviewed before, she is very outspoken about Chechnya. if this is true it is pretty fucked up.

 

[broken arm]

if this is true it is pretty fucked up.

indeed it is.

also, they just announced on Newstalk that Russia have said they are willing to strike terrorists anywhere in the world. Post-event flexing it may be but it could be worrying. especially if they keep insisting on the al q. connection and get pally with bush and the neo-con war on adjectives.............