[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (4 Viewers)

[broken arm]

PS if you love that fucking study so much why dont you marry it?

i can't wait to use this in a conference debate.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

No hissy fits here. Your experience is that of an accountant. Mine is of that of someone who has worked in music for quite a few years. Im not defending the industry and nor would I unless they did something worth defending, Im just pointing out that your position is a vague notion with a single study as evidence. I dont have to argue my own position to prove that yours is nothing more than stumbled upon reactionary intellectual wafers.

And please do point out one of my misguided suppositions.

PS if you love that fucking study so much why dont you marry it?

The most cursory glance at the numbers would lead anyone to see there is at the very least a significant element of truth to what I am saying. It's not complicated and it's not anything that you won't hear in any reasonable analysis of the situation.

I believe that the record industry completely overstates the impact of file sharing. They do this this for 2 reasons - one because they have never understood the phenomen and secondly because the alternative, that they have completely mismanaged the industry, is unpalatable.

Filesharing is an easy scapegoat.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Well don't blame me, I pay for my downloads. If it's a new band or a band I love or especially if it's a new irish band I love I make a point of buying their records in a independent record shop.

 

[Vinnie]

.

I believe that the record industry completely overstates the impact of file sharing. They do this this for 2 reasons - one because they have never understood the phenomen and secondly because the alternative, that they have completely mismanaged the industry, is unpalatable.

Filesharing is an easy scapegoat.

That's something of an oversimplification but there is some truth to it which is a vastly different position from stating that filesharing is having no impact on record sales.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

That's something of an oversimplification but there is some truth to it which is a vastly different position from stating that filesharing is having no impact on record sales.

It has some impact of course, I'd say the actual impact is only a small fraction of the total downturn in music sales.

It's all beside the point regardless - it doesn't really matter whether or not filesharing has an impact now on record sales. If record companies are going around trying to figure how big the impact is in unit terms and how to recover it then in the long run they are fucked.

The real impact of filesharing will not be that downloads supplant sales (allthough no doubt they will at an increasing rate) it is that the idea of intellectual property will change, and every time a record company sue some teenager they hasten their own demise but pointing out the ridiculousness of their position.

Whether or not filesharing is having an effect on record sale now is irrelevant - record companies are never going to win the war againt the technology, they are just going to have to accept that. However if they continue as they are going they will loose the wider debate of how copyright should operate in a modern society - if that happens thay are fucked.

 

[Vinnie]

If you disagree with the methodology used in the study - tell me why?
If you have something except your own misguided suppositions to contribute the the discussion, then do.
.

One more thing, a lot of the research in your new wife is nearly 6 years old which is about 5,000 internet years. It's not particularly relevant outside of being a study of consumer habits within that specific context.

 

[piratio]

...yet strangely, the Irish music scene has never been healthier. Strange that....

PS. For all you close minded biggots, I got married to a study entitled 'Examining an increase in holiday home constuction across the Shannon basin' four years ago and we've never been happier...

 

[Lili Marlene]

To quote two people I talked to over the christmas "I downloaded all of "______" albums, don't really like them but who cares, it's free!!"

it's those people who should be sued off the map, had them over to Prince's Lawyer's

 

[avernus]

I hate people

 

[Scientician 0.8]

For what it's worth here's a critique of the Oberholzer & Strumpf's work cited by Nailer Bombaye.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1014399

It is probably hard to quantify what detrimental effects, if any, free-for-all downloading has had on the sales of record companies major and independent alike but anecdotally very few of my friends under a certain age or over a certain level of technical competency purchase as many CDs as before the wide availability of broadband internet/filesharing/torrents/mp3 blogs etc.

The revenue decline is probably partially attributable to the stores having to sell cds at less exorbitant prices than they used to.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I've never downloaded as many films as before yet I spend more than I have ever done on cimema and DVD rentals. And despite all of the blathering about piracy cinamas in this country are booming. What's different about the film industry?

There is a lot more going on here than filesharing stole my business.

 

[rettucs]

There's no conclusive evedience that on thing is in any way linked to the other.

You could make the argument that people who are downloading had absolutely no notion of buying the albums anyway and that illegal download and downloads are not replacing sales.


Record companies have to look to their own practices - most of what they produce is shit - instead of whining about illegal downlads.

I completely agree with this, and I've argued the point here before. And the kind of people we're talking about here, at least bands might make some money out of them if a handful of them go to gigs or whatever.

One thing I resent is that more often than not when buying an album you take a bit of a chance on it. If its shit thats the end of that. You have no comeback. I wouldn't mind a bit of try and buy. Downloading offers that. Granted a hell of a lot of people wouldn't be arsed buying an album even if they loved it, but as Nailer said, those fuckers wouldn't have been bothered in the first place had the medium of download not been available to them.

Case in point. 2 years ago I heard a song by a relatively little-known New-York based band. I downloaded an album on the back of it. Loved it. Bought 3 of their albums. They played here around then. I brought 3 mates. All loved them. All own at least 2 albums. In this case I think the particular band in question did rather well out of my download. If I hadn't liked the album, well what harm?

 

[egg_]

And despite all of the blathering about piracy cinamas in this country are booming. What's different about the film industry?

The live music industry is booming too

 

[egg_]

Radiohead's "pay what you like" system has been a reality for the whole industry for a long time now - you can download for free or pay, your choice.

 

[Vinnie]

I dont think anyone would disagree with any of that but I dont see how it has any bearing on the topic at hand. As in neither you nor the wonderful & eloquent Richard are representative of a generation of teenagers in the states or Japan with hi-speed broadband who have pretty much no affiliation with the physical product and have grown up watching record shops disappear off the face off the earth and massive faceless chain stores become the place where most people buy their music (esp in the States). And who would feel bad about not giving Walmart a few quid?

One thing I resent is that more often than not when buying an album you take a bit of a chance on it. If its shit thats the end of that. You have no comeback. I wouldn't mind a bit of try and buy. Downloading offers that. Granted a hell of a lot of people wouldn't be arsed buying an album even if they loved it, but as Nailer said, those fuckers wouldn't have been bothered in the first place had the medium of download not been available to them.

Case in point. 2 years ago I heard a song by a relatively little-known New-York based band. I downloaded an album on the back of it. Loved it. Bought 3 of their albums. They played here around then. I brought 3 mates. All loved them. All own at least 2 albums. In this case I think the particular band in question did rather well out of my download. If I hadn't liked the album, well what harm?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Norman Bombay Mix

Must try harder!

 

[Vinnie]

Must try harder!

Fixed it for you

 

[MDR]

Radiohead's "pay what you like" system has been a reality for the whole industry for a long time now - you can download for free or pay, your choice.

I think the Radiohead thing was actually some pointless test of music-fan altruism/goodwill (picture an indie parent "I'm not going to tell you not to eat that chewing gum off the ground - I'm just going to trust you to make the right choice").

I don't own an ipod, nor do i download music (don't like listening to music on headphones you see) so I'm the worst person to talk about trends in the music industry, but I would have thought that a person who doesn't own any albums would be just as much a laughing stock among the music fans of the world as someone who cites a greatest hits collection as their favourite album of all time. You see - peer pressure can be a force for good too.

 

[rettucs]

As in neither you nor the wonderful & eloquent Richard are representative of a generation of teenagers in the states or Japan with hi-speed broadband who have pretty much no affiliation with the physical product and have grown up watching record shops disappear off the face off the earth and massive faceless chain stores become the place where most people buy their music (esp in the States)

agreed. But is that not reaffirming the point in a way? In the sense that the type of person you described above wouldn't be the sort who'd be even remotely interested in music but for the medium of download?

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Radiohead's "pay what you like" system has been a reality for the whole industry for a long time now - you can download for free or pay, your choice.

It's just a shame that they don't hold the same policy for their live events.