Ireland v Croatia (1 Viewer)

[washingcattle]

I don't really see it that way, I'd see it more as a two runners up front but a way of getting support from midfield a lot quicker. I'd still see us playing on the break but like I've said before two banks of four doesn't work if one of the midfield four is as useless as Gibson. it'd be 4 with 3 in front of that keeping it as tight as we always do but when the breaks come it would allow Keane to drop off and still have some penetration up front. And frankly if the habit of a life time involves hoofing it and then chasing it then c'mon surely we can do better than that ? Basically I'd see 4-4-2 as the perfect option I think it still is the best option given what we have but without an out and out box to box midfielder it's just too slow. There was only one Roy Keane and so we'll just continue to be toothless.

 

[Hector Grey]

well, there's holes in that. firstly, keane has retired. secondly we don't have players who can hold and then go forward and be all attack minded. james mccarthy, maybe. the only way we can move the ball from back to front is over the top. or, if we're feeling clever, via a pacy wingman. we ain't going to pass it, that's for sure. 433 is really just 451, and we're no good with just one man up top. it's a reductive tactic, 442, but it's all we have and lets face it, we're not going to outplaying spain any time soon. so if it gets us to the show, great.

 

[washingcattle]

Well firstly let me thank you for pointing out that Roy Keane has retired that was very helpful.

Secondly the problem isn't just that we lump it over the top the problem is that once we do we crawl out of our defensive stance so slowly that we make it impossible to hold the ball up because they basically have to do so for about 2 minutes to give Gibson time to turn around and stroll towards the opposition goal. Nifty wingers are fine but they're more effective when you have target to cross to Doyle and Long are good in the air for their size (actually Long has some spring in him) but I don't see Long and Doyle playing together in the near future, not while Keane is still available. Basically your 442 isn't that different to my 433 really we'd both sacrifice one useless midfielder i.e Gibson to accomidate someone who can actually pass a ball forward yours is McCarthy who I really haven't seen enough of to comment on and mine is Keane who I do believe is probably our best passer of a ball in the final third at the moment. So we're kind of on the same page. Still we could argue for another 5 pages about what we should be doing. Whether or not we have the personel to do it is the issue.

 

[Richie]

4-4-2 would do it, if we had even one central midfielder who could combine the required work ethic with the desire to get on the ball and the ability to pass it more than 10 yards -come on McCarthy, Meyler, Clifford etc..

Trap was making noises about 4-5-1 against Russia a while back, suppose it'll depend on whether we go there needing the win or aiming for bunker ball 0-0. I'm more worried about the Slovakia match and our inability to press teams at home than I am about the Moscow game, funnily enough.

 

[washingcattle]

Actually I thought of a really good example of what I'm banging on about. If you watch Everton vs Man City last season, either match as they were both the same story Everton defended doggedly, didn't play well at all in either first half, but we won both matches by breaking quickly and throwing players forward into the box from midfield. Osman, Cahill, and even Johnny H were busting their guts to get up in support that's what we just don't have. That's nothing to do with ability actually that's just putting in the work the more I type the more I want to shoot Gibson. He's my new McShane.


The phrase Bunker Ball. Briliant.

 

[Hector Grey]

well, there's holes in that. firstly, keane has retired. secondly we don't have players who can hold and then go forward and be all attack minded. james mccarthy, maybe. the only way we can move the ball from back to front is over the top. or, if we're feeling clever, via a pacy wingman. we ain't going to pass it, that's for sure. 433 is really just 451, and we're no good with just one man up top. it's a reductive tactic, 442, but it's all we have and lets face it, we're not going to outplaying spain any time soon. so if it gets us to the show, great.

anyway, what appears to be 433 is often 451 or 4231. there's spain and barca, real maybe. chelsea. united in 09, with tevez, rooney and ronaldo changing positions every few minutes. real 433 is operated by the best players in the world, with the smartest managers and all the rest of it.

 

[Hector Grey]

Actually I thought of a really good example of what I'm banging on about. If you watch Everton vs Man City last season, either match as they were both the same story Everton defended doggedly, didn't play well at all in either first half, but we won both matches by breaking quickly and throwing players forward into the box from midfield. Osman, Cahill, and even Johnny H were busting their guts to get up in support that's what we just don't have. That's nothing to do with ability actually that's just putting in the work the more I type the more I want to shoot Gibson. He's my new McShane.


The phrase Bunker Ball. Briliant.

timmy c is the perfect example of a player we just don't have.

 

[Jerry Twig]

I noticed your team has no place in it for McGeady 'Cattle. Would that be cos you still hold on the view that he's crap and not good enough for the Ireland team?
You sir are then in no position to talk about how the Ireland team should be lined out...

 

[Cormcolash]

4-3-3 is fairly sophisticated. it's based on keeping the ball in the centre, bringing it from defence, and your wingers coming in, or being inside out or whatever. we haven't got one player technically proficient enough to excel at 443 or the time to change the habits of a lifetime. our best bet will always be defence, keep it compact in the middle and have very willing runners up fron. long and doyle are perfect for us. as long as we produce the odd winger with a bit of pace we'll be grand. the alternative is building the entire team around a playmaker. stephen ireland maybe?

I like that 4-4-3 idea of yours actually, as long as we still have Given in nets I reckon it'd work

 

[Cormcolash]

Remember when Trap just took over, Stephen Reid was great in midfield, great passing everywhere. Then he got crocked . Then we could have used Andy Reid, but he played too much guitar. Then there was the Daddy Dick phone call comedy. Then the McCarthy saga. I don't really think Trap has any particular interest in midfielders that can pass the ball forward and break forward themselves. It doesn't fit the system. The system is, give the ball to Honey Monster, and watch him fuck it towards the opposition goalkeeper, and hope Long or Doyle can bounce it off someone's arse into the onrushing Robbie Keane, who can then fall over and win a free kick that Stephen Hunt can spoon into the box, for Honey Monster to crash it into the net. Basically, Dunne passes to himself and scores.

 

[Hector Grey]

i think we're forgetting trap's past here. he's won everything with juve and bayern, and he didn't use 442 to do it. we don't have the players to play any other way. if he were in charge of italy again, he wouldn't foist 442 on them. it doesn't matter a fuck, really, all that matters is that we win, or draw, and put up a good fight in the case of defeat. that's the best we can hope. trying to tactically outmanoeuvre the opposition is never going to work. we have to out elbow them. and turn that 4/5 empty white elephant they call the aviva into a desolate, echoey fortress. big teams will come over and stand there thinking, "where are all ze fans?" and that's when we pounce.

 

[washingcattle]

I noticed your team has no place in it for McGeady 'Cattle. Would that be cos you still hold on the view that he's crap and not good enough for the Ireland team?
You sir are then in no position to talk about how the Ireland team should be lined out...

He can't fucking cross ! He's still running into a corner beating his marker twice and then hitting him with the attempted cross. Why am I the only one who sees this ?

Look back at all the goals we've scored in the last 5 years how many came from a cross from McGeady ? Seriously do it then get back to me.

 

[washingcattle]

Wait it's a wind up isn't it ? You all see how ineffective McGeady is and you only do this to get my goat. Right ?


Ha ha you guys !!

 

[Cormcolash]

I was in Lansdowne Road there the other week, and I actually think it's a great stadium. It just needs someone to start the noise, and we can make it a fortress again. Ireland need to do what Celtic have managed to do, and get the crowd going again - Celtic Park is a different stadium these days, it's fucking great.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Wait it's a wind up isn't it ? You all see how ineffective McGeady is and you only do this to get my goat. Right ?


Ha ha you guys !!

No wind up. He's our only play maker in addition to Duff. He may still have a lot of work to do on his crossing alright, but he's fast, runs at players and annoys the shit out of them, and, I can't stress this enough from an Ireland point of view, he holds the ball for a long time, breaking up the play, which we fucking need big time. So yes, beating your man twice and then hitting him for a corner is sometimes a good thing.
He's probably the biggest potential game changer we have, and you'd leave him out cos of his crosses?
You're fired.

 

[washingcattle]

Yes I would leave him out because of his crosses because in my system we have to hit on the break at speed and with players who can deliver the goods in the final third in my system no one will have to hold the ball up and no one will be allowed to be isolated facing two or three defenders with no sign of support. In my system McGeady will have to grow as a player instead of having his massive flaws overlooked because he can do eveything you just mentioned, which to be fair I don't argue with he can run at people and he is a potential game changer, but his game is deeply flawed. Give me six weeks with him I'll turn him into a world class player. How ? I'll hire Leighton Baines to school him day in day out until he gets the message. Actually if I recall correctly wasn't Gary Neville a decent crosser ? He's got fuck all to do these days I'll cll hm.


Oh no wait he's too much of a cunt.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Yes I would leave him out because of his crosses because in my system we have to hit on the break at speed and with players who can deliver the goods in the final third

And who would these players be exactly? Last time I checked Xavi and Iniesta played for Spain.
In fact, you've made my point for me that you'd have to make those players, and the one player who would have the natural potential is McGeady.

 

[washingcattle]

5 from Doyle, Keane, Long, Coleman, Duff, Fahey Possibly Lawerence but I'd have him doing sprints with Usain Bolt for a few months Possibly James McCarthy but he could do with a few Roy Keane lessons in putting the boot in. Certainly the system would require Doyle to do a lot of donkey work up front but from what I've seen he could be the new Mark Hughes, again with a little work.

 

[Hector Grey]

i'm sorry, that's mental. it's all mental.

 

[Cormcolash]

It's just a bit unrealistic, to say the least.
McGeady is very useful for Ireland, because he's one of the only players we have that can hold the ball up even when the opposition has 3 defenders on top of him. Ireland need this, because most of the team is slow as fuck coming up to support. This isn't going to change, unless all of a sudden the Spanish or German national squad declare they all have Irish grandparents and FIFA let them switch to us.
All we are really missing is a working central midfield if you ask me. If we had Roy Keane in there with Whelan, that team would be fucking great right now, I reckon.