How present are female musicians in the line-up at the Camden Crawl 2013? (2 Viewers)

[Unicron]

Last time I saw Hunk play they had a male drummer.

They still do but I believe that he is leaving soon and they have a woman lined up to come in.

 

[hugh]

You know lads youse are all (well almost all) acting as if you are being accused of being personally responsible for this situation. Whether you agree with the idea of quotas or not, it's still an interesting exercise to look at an event like this and analyze it in this way. Like Anthony, I would have thought the percentage would have been even less, which is pretty depressing really.

The relatively low rate of participation from women is one of the things that makes this whole indie-schmindie thing we are all involved in less interesting than it could be. It's also one of the things that makes Thumped less interesting than it could be.

 

[east hastings]

They still do but I believe that he is leaving soon and they have a woman lined up to come in.

Todays gig is the last before he's leaving

 

[washingcattle]

You know lads youse are all (well almost all) acting as if you are being accused of being personally responsible for this situation. Whether you agree with the idea of quotas or not, it's still an interesting exercise to look at an event like this and analyze it in this way. Like Anthony, I would have thought the percentage would have been even less, which is pretty depressing really.

The relatively low rate of participation from women is one of the things that makes this whole indie-schmindie thing we are all involved in less interesting than it could be. It's also one of the things that makes Thumped less interesting than it could be.

Who exactly is acting that way Hugh ?

I don't think quotas help at all.

More importantly as I've said before if you want more girls to start bands you have to encourage them to do so when they are very young. I started my first band when I was 15 (I'd say most of us here did) and couldn't get into shows like the Camden Crawl so if I was a 15 year old girl now it would be far more benificial for me to have an all ages all genders show to attend or play at then it is to have a quota of women playing at a show I can't attend.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Todays gig is the last before he's leaving

see,he's doing the right thing then,giving a girl a chance.

 

[IFF]

girlsrockcampie, in the statistics of 63% being wholly male, how do you know that in this 63% that some of the bands don't have intergender or be a trans person who has already transitioned to their gender identity?

i read an article last week about a person with androgen insensitivity syndrome, the person was outwardly female but her chromosones were XY instead of XX so in this case, would you put this person if they were a musician as male or female?

------
interestingly on singers of bands, i looked at the albums i have in rotation last year and 55% of the cd's i listen to regularly had mainly male vocals, and 33% had mainly female vocals. 8% had both and 3% had none. this was part of a question on a different forum about how "music preference and gender" on the forum.

 

[nooleen]

this was part of a question on a different forum about how "music preference and gender" on the forum.

this started me thinking about gender divide by genre (e.g. plenty of women in blues and folk although still probably subordinate to the amount of men, very few women in metal), which is when it occurred to me that there doesn't seem to be any gender divide at all in pop - could this be the evidence that the more 'alternative' types of musos are a bunch of sexist pricks?

(taking pop to mean 'proper' pop music [cue offshoot argument about what 'pop music' means] as opposed to the autotuned sex show type acts, which of course feature mainly women, being sex shows [cue offshoot argument about sex work])

i haven't really thought this all the way through so don't go super-nuts or anything

 

[washingcattle]

this started me thinking about gender divide by genre (e.g. plenty of women in blues and folk although still probably subordinate to the amount of men, very few women in metal), which is when it occurred to me that there doesn't seem to be any gender divide at all in pop - could this be the evidence that the more 'alternative' types of musos are a bunch of sexist pricks?

Even if alternative muso types were sexist, I still don't see how exactly you can stop a bunch of girls forming a band.

I mean I get gender bias in employment statistics because there is an existing male bias and they have the power to perpetuate that hierarchy. No girl has to ask a man can they start a band. No one stops women from engaging in DIY which is by far the most visible format of gigs in Ireland at the moment so it simply doesn't make any sense.

And don't give me that "no one supports women in music" because no one really gets any support anyway. You're on your own no matter what gender you are.

 

[nooleen]

i said don't go super-nuts or anything

 

[washingcattle]

i said don't go super-nuts or anything

Trust me when I go super nuts you'll know it.

 

[EGE YURTUM]

If there are females in bands - great...
If there aren't females in bands - great... perhaps they have better things to be doing... or aren't interested in the same way that many males aren't interested in being in bands...

...The idea that encouragement is lacking or that bands are a bunch of sexist blokes in this regard is strange - a lot of young males are awkward, socially clumsy, super shy and severely lacking in self confidence / self esteem, yet this issue always seems to boil down to the males involved in bands somehow being answerable for whatever this argument is...

... maybe being in a band is an incredibly lame and life wasting thing to do and more females are wise to this...

... or perhaps it's a non-issue...

 

[nooleen]

i dunno, i don't really give a shit - i tried to have a bit of a think out loud about it there but it didn't even cause a blip in the aggressive/defensive reactions, it doesn't appear to be possible to talk about it in any useful way

 

[washingcattle]

i dunno, i don't really give a shit - i tried to have a bit of a think out loud about it there but it didn't even cause a blip in the aggressive/defensive reactions, it doesn't appear to be possible to talk about it in any useful way

I really don't understand this at all. I don't see how any responses here have been either aggressive or defensive.

I just don't agree with you.

 

[nooleen]

you responded to my musings about gender in different genres with "don't give me that "no one supports women in music"" when my whole point was that there are plenty of women in most genres of music. you ignored what i had actually said to give out about something i never said.

 

[IFF]

If there are females in bands - great...
If there aren't females in bands - great... perhaps they have better things to be doing... or aren't interested in the same way that many males aren't interested in being in bands...

...The idea that encouragement is lacking or that bands are a bunch of sexist blokes in this regard is strange - a lot of young males are awkward, socially clumsy, super shy and severely lacking in self confidence / self esteem, yet this issue always seems to boil down to the males involved in bands somehow being answerable for whatever this argument is...

... maybe being in a band is an incredibly lame and life wasting thing to do and more females are wise to this...

... or perhaps it's a non-issue...

this reminds me of an interview I read with the wonderful Eleanor Friedberger

http://pitchfork.com/features/update/9073-eleanor-friedberger/

My big regret is that my brother and I didn't start doing what we did like, 10 years before. I feel like then we would have sold some records. We started pretty late-- I was 27 when our first album came out. I'm kicking myself for going to college. I feel like I'm struggling now, and nearly every musician I know feels that way-- even the most successful ones. I realize that I'm very lucky, but I still feel like I could be doing so much better.

this reminds me, a question for the opening poster. Last year, I saw her live in Whelans. She had 3 male musicians with her in her band but would you consider this 100% female representation or would it be just 25% female representation in your research?

 

[rettucs]

does anyone really ever give this a second thought when they're at gigs or are listening to music? I don't. It doesn't occur to me that such-and-such a band are all blokes or all women, or a mixture, or whatever. I mean, of course you're aware of it but it just doesn't occur to you that its an issue.

I like lots of bands that are all women, all men, or a mixture. I like plenty of male solo artists and likewise female solo artists. 2 people ever have said to me they don't like any female artists (specifically where a female has the lead vocal). Of those 2, one was female, one was male.

Maybe its besides the point being made (about opportunities for female artists), but I think hauling Camden Crawl over the coals, implying some kind of sexist agent, is bang out of line. For me its unfairly creating an issue where there is none.

 

[rettucs]

Whether you agree with the idea of quotas or not, it's still an interesting exercise to look at an event like this and analyze it in this way.

the point of the thread, which was completely lost because of how clumsily it was made, would certainly make for an interesting and useful discussion, I agree completely. However, its not going to happen in a thread lacking in tact, as this one is. It immediately crossed the line of being a personal attack on a single event. For me that was unfair, and even a bit of a low blow.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Is there a comprehensive list of all female and mixed-gender bands in Ireland so we can see if meeting this quota was even possible?

 

[GirlsRockCampIE]

Hi everyone!
I'm not going to comment on everything written here, because it's not my responsibility to educate you all.

IFF, a person who has transitioned to their gender identity as a man is wholly male. I didn't write cis-men, but "men". I think it's safe to assume these includes trans-men. However trans* visibility is also important. In terms of the article you read, and your question, I tried to not make the decision based on appearances, but rather look at the choice of pro-noun. Self-definition being the key. Of course, language is limited, however there is the possibility of using the pro-noun "they" in reference to a person who doesn't want to use either "she" or "he". I didn't find any musicians at this event that I could identify as out trans* or inter* gender musicians. With regards to the musician Eleanor Friedberger, I'm not sure how she presents herself in her biography and press photos - as a solo artist or as a four piece band. As I stated earlier, I went with the information presented about the musical act in the context of the festival website and biog, looking at the bands own press material when needed. See my previous answer for more detail on this. Hope this helps.

I want to comment on the idea that we are singling out Camden Crawl in some way. While it would be wonderful to have the resources to analyse every aspect of different music scenes in ireland and the different and complex ways that gender operates within them, we don't (yet). So please don't diminish what we are managing to achieve (and the free education we are giving you) by claiming we are "dragging them over the coals" (lol wat? it's an infographic), try and switch the focus. Recognise your own defence mechanisms and get to the point where you can look at yourselves and the scenes you participate in. I appreciate that some people are already at this point.

 

[Cormcolash]

I dont get it, what's gender got to do with these people being musicians?
Am I missing something?