bnp coming to Ireland (1 Viewer)

[Blackenedflag]

Tony Wentworth, a youth organiser from the bnp is coming to Trinity for a debate on politics of the far right. There seems to be alot of mixed views on wether or not he should be able to speak, and what 'freedom of speech' actually means.
I think he has a right to come and speak. As much as everyone who wants to, has a right to protest against him. What do people here think of it all?
http://http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61965

 

[the strange guy]

Was there any truth to the fact that there was once an Irish version of the BNP called the IBNP?

 

[W.]

someone used this quote over there on indymedia

"Only one thing could have broken our movement - if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed, with the most extreme brutality, the nucleus of our new movement."
-Adolf Hitler

are we really going to use something hitler said as a justification for bashing nazis ? - i say yes!

[/irony]

 

[the strange guy]

The only other thing that could have broken their movement is a half decent opposition, as opposed to a bunch of fat, sausage eating Krauts. Ah, but sure, the brits walloped them in the end and its grand now.

 

[rape the drummer]

yes, i agree oly, since world war 2 everything has been just perfect!

 

[rape the drummer]

oh, and this guy should DEFINITLY be allowed speak

 

[the strange guy]

Dunno if you're taking the piss, but if not, then I totally agree. Nothing like a bit of censorship to make the world a better place. It'll help keep people in line, too. Viva Anarchy!

 

[rape the drummer]

no, not taking the piss, its fucking stupid going on about 'freedom of speech' when you'd censor a nazi if you could. like chomsky said; if you believe in free speech you must believe in it perhaps even more so for your enemy than for yourself. or something like that. anyway i'm not too happy with censorship at all after my incident with the gardai taking a book off me cause it had the word anarchism in the title, then not even giving it back or giving me money to buy a new one.

 

[the strange guy]

censorship is bad!

 

[rape the drummer]

oh yeeeaaahhhh...., now i see what you mean, it is good, isn't it! anyway, its way past bedtime for us school kids so i'll have to abruptly end this discussion.

 

[oh shit]

Tony Wentworth, a youth organiser from the bnp is coming to Trinity for a debate on politics of the far right. There seems to be alot of mixed views on wether or not he should be able to speak, and what 'freedom of speech' actually means.
I think he has a right to come and speak. As much as everyone who wants to, has a right to protest against him. What do people here think of it all?
http://http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61965

i'd definitely like to hear it. i wasn't aware the BNP actually HAD any politics.
when is it and do you happen to know if he'll be at Queens too?

 

[wierd sister]

"no, not taking the piss, its fucking stupid going on about 'freedom of speech' when you'd censor a nazi if you could. like chomsky said; if you believe in free speech you must believe in it perhaps even more so for your enemy than for yourself."
I don't think its stupid at all to "go on about" free speech when you'd censor a Nazi...These are people who spread hatred and cause deaths, allowing them free speech is allowing them to build up their movement (which in Ireland, at the moment is thankfully small and unorganised), and give them the confidence to be more open and public about their ideas. And the fact also remains that by giving them free speech, you are helping them to reach their final goal of censoring ALL free speech.

 

[W.]

lyncher has a point, as does chomsky.
it comes down to what's more important to us, civil liberties under capitalism or stopping fascism.

although talking of censorship under the current system is laughable - everything we are told is censored and biased..
www.cnn.com
www.whitehouse.gov
www.rte.ie
www.ireland.com
...

 

[Problematic]

"I don't think its stupid at all to "go on about" free speech when you'd censor a Nazi...These are people who spread hatred and cause deaths, allowing them free speech is allowing them to build up their movement (which in Ireland, at the moment is thankfully small and unorganised), and give them the confidence to be more open and public about their ideas. And the fact also remains that by giving them free speech, you are helping them to reach their final goal of censoring ALL free speech.[/QUOTE]

that`s shite, censorship is fine and dandy as long as you get to chose who or what gets censored. Surely by your reasoning you`re already doing what you claim they are trying to do, "their final goal of censoring ALL free speech", you either have free speech or you don`t.

 

[W.]

it does make sense, it's just hard to stand by and allow them to spread their message.
I guess this talk could just as easily be leafleted or whatever instead of actually preventing him from speaking.

 

[wierd sister]

"I don't think its stupid at all to "go on about" free speech when you'd censor a Nazi...These are people who spread hatred and cause deaths, allowing them free speech is allowing them to build up their movement (which in Ireland, at the moment is thankfully small and unorganised), and give them the confidence to be more open and public about their ideas. And the fact also remains that by giving them free speech, you are helping them to reach their final goal of censoring ALL free speech.

that`s shite, censorship is fine and dandy as long as you get to chose who or what gets censored. Surely by your reasoning you`re already doing what you claim they are trying to do, "their final goal of censoring ALL free speech", you either have free speech or you don`t.[/QUOTE]
I'm not one for censorship meself, but I think that fascism is different...Hitler used the democratic process in Gemany to get himself into power before getting rid of democracy alltogether, surely theres something to be learned in that...by denying them free speech I am not censoring all free speech like you say, fascists would be the only people I would feel this way about. You can argue about what is and isn't free speech all you like, but I know where I'll be on the 20th.

 

[Problematic]

yeah but once you start down that road where do you draw the line, who decides if you`re fascist enough to be silenced, do you also gag scumbags like Youth Defence and their ilk, Immigration Action Group, people have to be allowed dissenting opinons, your politics would be alien to the mainstream in this country, so what if they decide that anything too far left is being used to undermine the "democracy" here, does it then become ok to refuse you your right to be heard.
I will also be there on the 20th, I suport this pricks right to try and speak but I also will be showing my oposition to what`s being said.

 

[rape the drummer]

its not him talking thats the danger its the impressionable people who would actually listen and then agree with him, thats why people should be there to raise their voice against what he says and give the other side of the arguement rather than just censoring outright. in my opinion i could never see Nazi's gaining any sort of real power in the world again but then thats just my opinion, other people may think otherwise. if you were to believe in free speech yet then censored any right wing group no matter how extreme, then even the more conservative right wing would use it against you and say your hypocritical in what you believe in etc.

 

[Corm]

that`s shite, censorship is fine and dandy as long as you get to chose who or what gets censored. Surely by your reasoning you`re already doing what you claim they are trying to do, "their final goal of censoring ALL free speech", you either have free speech or you don`t.

Would you give freedom of speech to someone who is using that freedom of speech, to attempt to convince others to take it away from you? Do you think its unjust to censor a manifesto of which the goal is ultimate censorship? Censorship not just of words, but of people? You're Jewish, we censor you -BLAM! You're black, we censor you -BLAM! You're gay,
we censor you -BLAM!

 

[yames]

in my opinion i could never see Nazi's gaining any sort of real power in the world again but then thats just my opinion

"Nazi's" have indeed been around since and long after the end of WW2. They STILL are around. They might have different names, titles or uniform, but rest assured they are still here, and have real power.

The "nazi" and in general "fascist" way/philosophy/system/whatever, was and STILL is common in many cultures existing today, maybe not in your Irish life, but elsewhere. It has power and dominance.

What do you think Bosnia was and IS all about?