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Message: [QUOTE="Squiggle, post: 1740409, member: 5000"] This is a very valid point, and the biggest disgrace. I think that the prevalence of this attitude among the "pro-life" (more properly "pro-birthing") community was part of the reason that Repeal was successful. The people who stand outside hospitals with coffins, crosses and rosaries have demonstrated over decades that they only place value on the unborn child. Once those babies enter the world they've no interest in supporting either it or its parents, and one could even argue that their track record shows that they are merely interested in ensuring that more children are produced for them to abuse. And in that case in New Zealand the mother of the three murdered children had tried to protect them from their father, but his rights as a father were apparently more important than their right to be safe from harm. I know that I have seen more outrage about alleged abuse of animals than I have seen about far worse abuse of either women or children. So the pecking order seems to be something like Men (in order or whiteness, richness etc) Animals (unless hunted by manly men to prove their manliness) Unborn babies Newborn babies before they leave the hospital Women Children [/QUOTE]