Home Alone (1 Viewer)

[egg_]

Jeaysus - its a report about ALL missing children, covering ALL factors from runaways to abductees... thats why those numbers are in there.

Weren't you were trying to use the report to back up your assertion that stranger abduction is not all that rare? I thought you were ... if not, sorry, if you were, well, I was just trying to point out that the report doesn't really do that

Anyway whatever - id prefer to take as many measures as possible to prevent anything like that happening to my son

Hey, that's fair enough.

But taking the abduction aside you cannot justify leaving 3 children under 3 on their own in a locked room. ANYTHING couldve happened ... i'm sure in a tapas bar, lots of activity and music to drown out any crying if it was just a case of one of their kids waking up crying.

No, not ANYTHING.
How do you know what the tapas bar was like? Maybe this was a quiet one. Maybe they would have been able to hear the kids if they had cried.

I think a lot of the criticism of the parents has its roots in "I take better care of my kids than that, therefore it couldn't have happened to me" - which is an understandable way to feel, but it doesn't mean you're in the right

 

[aoboa]

It's mostly parents vs non-parents on here.
I'm with egg on this. Give the parents a break.
If I left my kid in the car asleep while I went into the shop to buy milk and someone robbed the car or someone crashed into the car it amounts to the same thing. You'd have loads of people going "How could he leave a baby in a car - if I had kids I'd never do that'. I've done it - my kids been asleep, we needed something, I've pulled up at the shop and left him asleep in the car while I did what I had to do. It would be unfair on him to wake him.
Fact is, until you have kids, you don't know what you'll do.
Journalists have printed articles with the same opinions as people on this thread - as if the parents aren't in hell enough already.
I wouldn't leave my kid in bed and go out and eat, he'd be with me, but what these parents did wasn't wrong and it's nothing that loads of parents haven't done at some point. The kids were asleep so the chances of them harming themselves was tiny, especially with the parents checking them every 30 minutes, not to mention the fact that the parents no doubt knew their kids sleeping habits.
No parent lives in fear of their kids being kidnapped or killed 24/7. If we did we'd all be committed by now cos we'd never let them out of the house and we'd never sleep. No creche, no school, no friends, no life.

 

[Anthony]

Now where's 'rep' when you need it?

 

[benni]

If I left my kid in the car asleep while I went into the shop to buy milk and someone robbed the car or someone crashed into the car it amounts to the same thing. You'd have loads of people going "How could he leave a baby in a car - if I had kids I'd never do that'. I've done it - my kids been asleep, we needed something, I've pulled up at the shop and left him asleep in the car while I did what I had to do. It would be unfair on him to wake him..

See I dont really think thats cool either. I'm sure lots of people have done it and I'm not trying to make out like I'm a better parent than anyone else but I dont think its cool to leave a little baby in a car out of sight of the parent. Of course things can happen when you are right there beside them - but thats the thing! With children things can happen so easily and so quickly... why give the possibility of something happening a helping hand?

The kids were asleep so the chances of them harming themselves was tiny, especially with the parents checking them every 30 minutes, not to mention the fact that the parents no doubt knew their kids sleeping habits.

I dont agree with that either! I'm pretty sure that every parent can identify with mental little 3year olds. Toddlers like! They're always up to mad stuff and they are so quick too! And im pretty sure every parent has been downstairs and heard the're kids falling out of bed or calling you cause they've just puked on themselves..... not exactly a nightly thing - but it does happen at some point... as can anything!

No parent lives in fear of their kids being kidnapped or killed 24/7. If we did we'd all be committed by now cos we'd never let them out of the house and we'd never sleep. No creche, no school, no friends, no life..

I'm not saying they should - or that i do. My son goes to school and creche and has friends. But in all of those situations there are parents/teachers around and security measures in place. Of course even these instances are not flawless - but in this situation its not like the children are left on their own. In schools there are yard supervisers and gates etc.....

I just dont think its enough to say - 'ah im sure lots of people have done it'. The fact of the matter is that the little girl was taken when she was left alone for a half hour at a go. If there parents were there chances are it wouldnt have happened. Sure, it couldve happen at any other time - but it didnt. It happened when she was left in the hotel room on her own. Clearly because it was the easier opportunity for the kidnappers.

 

[aoboa]

If you've managed to provide personal 24/7 supervision for your kid you must be some kind of superhero.
I really don't believe that you've never done anything similar.

 

[benni]

Not one on one - of course not... i said that already when talkin about kids in schools etc. But ive never left my son unsupervised like that.

In school there are teachers, in creches there are creche workers. In terms of playing at home - he plays in the back garden which has a 10ft wall around it. I dont let him out on the roads to play... because of cars amongst anything else. If he's playing with friends they come over to my house or he goes to theirs and i have always told the parents that i dont let my son out on the roads and they are fine with that - in fact most agree. If he wants to play football in the field i go with him - at rugby practice on sunday morns I bring him and stay there until he's done. And in terms of babysitting - if im playing a gig or rehearsing i check in advance if my parents or a best mate can do it and if thats not possible then I just dont do it.
Yes its really fucking tiring - and even more so when you're a single parent - and to be honest with you sometimes i do feel like parents are fucking superheros - but its doable. And at least i feel comfortable about my sons safety.

 

[egg_]

I just dont think its enough to say - 'ah im sure lots of people have done it'

That's not what any of us are saying. What we're saying is "we know there is a risk, but it's very small and therefore acceptable". There's a certain background level of risk to everything - you might wake your child to carry them into the shop and they're crying so much you're distracted and walk in front of a truck, or you might leave them in car and the car gets hit by a speeding fire engine. The chances of either happening are so low that there's no way of knowing which is the safer option - what you do know is that if you wake the kid up she'll be cranky as hell

 

[aoboa]

Exactly.

 

[benni]

That's not what any of us are saying. What we're saying is "we know there is a risk, but it's very small and therefore acceptable". There's a certain background level of risk to everything - you might wake your child to carry them into the shop and they're crying so much you're distracted and walk in front of a truck, or you might leave them in car and the car gets hit by a speeding fire engine. The chances of either happening are so low that there's no way of knowing which is the safer option - what you do know is that if you wake the kid up she'll be cranky as hell

Ah come on now - you can churn out those.... 'a piano could fall on your head' till the end of time to back up any sort or arguement. There is nothing acceptable about leaving 3 kids under 3 in a hotel room on their own with 300ft, a wall, a hedge, a pool and a lane way between you and the room. No way. I wouldnt take that chance in any situation. I've woke my son up when taking him out of the car before - big deal.. you have to deal with a cranky baby for a few minutes and then back asleep they go.... at least the baby is with you.

Besides - there is a big difference between you and your kid being hit by a car in a road accident while you're distracted looking after them and fucking off to a tapas bars for some food and drinks while your 3 kids are left alone. I'm not saying the parents deserve it at all - but people should learn from it.

 

[aoboa]

Ah come on now - you can churn out those.... 'a piano could fall on your head' till the end of time to back up any sort or arguement. There is nothing acceptable about leaving 3 kids under 3 in a hotel room on their own with 300ft, a wall, a hedge, a pool and a lane way between you and the room. No way. I wouldnt take that chance in any situation. I've woke my son up when taking him out of the car before - big deal.. you have to deal with a cranky baby for a few minutes and then back asleep they go.... at least the baby is with you.

Besides - there is a big difference between you and your kid being hit by a car in a road accident while you're distracted looking after them and fucking off to a tapas bars for some food and drinks while your 3 kids are left alone. I'm not saying the parents deserve it at all - but people should learn from it.

The odds are probably greater of your car being hit than of your kid being stalked and kidnapped.

So, when you're in your car with your kid and you need petrol, you stop, take your kid out, fill the car with petrol while holding your kid, carry him into the petrol station, pay for your petrol while trying to hold him, etc etc etc???

 

[benni]

No i fill the car with petrol and then take him out.... ive left him in the car a few times when the entire front of the petrol station is clear and i can see him the whole time. If I cant see him I take him with me - i dont see why you find this so hard to believe....? Just because it takes a little bit longer....?

 

[aoboa]

No i fill the car with petrol and then take him out.... ive left him in the car a few times when the entire front of the petrol station is clear and i can see him the whole time. If I cant see him I take him with me - i dont see why you find this so hard to believe....? Just because it takes a little bit longer....?

I'm trying to find fault in you because even though you say you're not trying to say you're a better parent than anyone else, you're being really judgemental of situations I mentioned.

 

[benni]

Ok well can i just point out that i have not been personal about anybody or anyones parenting methods on this board, but its nice to see that you've got the ball rolling there all by yourself. I'm not being judgemental about anything sweetheart - its not personal so maybe stop taking it that way - im giving my perspective as a parent on what i think was an irresponsbile act that resulted in a child being abducted.

 

[aoboa]

Ok well can i just point out that i have not been personal about anybody or anyones parenting methods on this board, but its nice to see that you've got the ball rolling there all by yourself. I'm not being judgemental about anything sweetheart - its not personal so maybe stop taking it that way - im giving my perspective as a parent on what i think was an irresponsbile act that resulted in a child being abducted.

Fair enough.
When you say something like "why give the possibility of something happening a helping hand?" is relation to me leaving a sleeping child in a car for a minute - it feels personal, so excuse me for taking it as such if it wasn't meant.

Personally, I think what those parents did was, at worst, idiotic but not tantamount to child abuse as has been suggested at points in this thread. That's what I'm trying to get across.
I spent a few hours in A&E on Saturday night after my son fell and put his tooth through his lip when we were standing right next to him. If it happened when he was in the house and I was in the back garden - I'd be beating myself up for not being beside him - thinking I could have prevented it or something. If it had happened in the creche - I'd be thinking that I should quit my job and be with him 24/7 and so on and so on.
If those parents had gone out for their meal and had come back to check on their kids and found that one of them had fallen out of bed and burst their lip you can be damn sure that they'd never have gone out and left their kids like that again. Unfortunately for them, it looks like their kid was targeted for abduction by an organised gang of professionals. Personally, I don't think they stood a chance.

 

[egg_]

you can churn out those.... 'a piano could fall on your head' till the end of time to back up any sort or arguement

That's not what I'm doing. Lookit, if you feel safer with your child in your arms, then that's totally fine. I'm just trying to point out that you might not be right. We all constantly make risk assessments as part of our everyday lives as parents, and we've no way of telling whether we were right or wrong unless something bad happens.

Can't you see what I'm getting at? Maybe I'm not making myself clear ...

you have to deal with a cranky baby for a few minutes and then back asleep they go

And then back asleep they go? You're a lucky woman, benni

 

[benni]

Fair enough.
When you say something like "why give the possibility of something happening a helping hand?" is relation to me leaving a sleeping child in a car for a minute - it feels personal, so excuse me for taking it as such if it wasn't meant.

Ok well firstly i didnt even know you were a parent Aoboa - when i said all that stuff i was being hypothetical and it wasnt directed at you so apologies if you felt i was picking you out there. And like i say each to their own - there's lots of stuff i could do better as a parent.

Regarding your little dude hurting himself - no of course you cant be everywhere he is 24/7 and neither can I - but the fact that things can happen within seconds - thats whats I am gettin at - why would you (general - not specifically you Aoboa) leave kids on their own for god knows how long checkin on them only every 30mins - its way too easy for something to happen as it is.

Unfortunately for them, it looks like their kid was targeted for abduction by an organised gang of professionals. Personally, I don't think they stood a chance.

Yeah i totally agree - thats the sad thing and I know it couldve happened at any time. But if they left them on their own that night they might have done it the previous night. And if the kidnappers saw this as opposed to another family they might have been watching who were with their kids when they were sleeping at night - its clear which is a more attractive opportunity.

If the little girl had not have been abducted and instead had just got out of the room and was found wandering on the side of a road in her pajamas in the middle of the night there would be people shouting 'child neglect' and 'anything couldve happened'. Unfortunately for them it was even worse.

 

[zero_hero]

Theres another theory she could have woken up, noone there, and wandered out alone. There were huge trenches dug for roadworks across the way. They are digging them up as its a possibility she could have fallen in