GNH (1 Viewer)

[mazzyianne]

My dad was at the world summit for sustainable development in Johannesburg a few years back and he brought me back a copy of a speech made by the representative of a place called Bhutan.
He pretty much got laughed out of it, or at least not taken seriously at all.
It was about how the wealth of a country shouldnt be measured by GNP but by GNH, gross national happiness.
Anyways I'm doing an essay about the measurement of economic development, and the unmeasured costs of growth, looking at the Celtic Tiger mainly. I just looked it up again and I thought some people might be interested. It's kind of cool.
(I'm a total hippy at heart.)
http://www.grossinternationalhappiness.org/gnh.html

 

[Bellatrix]

Isn't that just another name for the standard of living? Which is 'measured' by various polls and surveys - for example, according to The Guardian the Irish are all as happy as clams.

Also, isn't the Bhutanese suggestion a little bit like saying "Hey, instead of establishing the solvency of our business by examining the profit margin, hows about instead we examine the pie margin. Mmmmmm pie."

I'm not saying that the 'success' attributable to a government or a society is directly proportional to its GNP, I'm just saying that happiness is a totally arbitrary concept - different reports on national standards of living vary hugely both in their criteria and in their conclusions. GNP on the other hand is not arbitrary at all and needs to be measured for lots of non-evil reasons, as I'm sure you know hippy!

 

[classic seanc]

Is Bhutan the country that had a ban on television? And then after they lifted it the whole country became a consumeristic mess of a place?

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Is Bhutan the country that had a ban on television? And then after they lifted it the whole country became a consumeristic mess of a place?

Pretty much. It used to be an absolute monarchy completely cut off from the outside world, but the latest ruler is a big moderniser. So now they can watch the simpsons and judge judy. Id say the gross national happiness has gone through the roof since then.

Ive heard lots of other heads refer to measuring a country's success in terms of happiness index recently as well. No less a thinker than george hook has a happiness index on his show I believe.

 

[Bellatrix]

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of measuring the success of a country according to the happiness of its people.

I just don't think wealth or productivity should be measured that way.

 

[billygannon]

There's hardly any crime in Bhutan. And they don't let in foreigners. Hmmmm... maybe the Daily Mail is on to something.... hmmmmm

 

[mazzyianne]

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of measuring the success of a country according to the happiness of its people.

I just don't think wealth or productivity should be measured that way.

The problem is that so much emphasis is put on growth, constantly growing, it's not sustainable. Most countries place very little emphasis on the levels of satisfaction etc among their people.
We hear all the time how great Ireland is doing and how happy we all should be about all the growth, but the celtic tiger has had plenty of negative impacts, on stress related illness, on the number of people feeling dissatisfied with their lives, on suicide, on the distribution of wealth...

I just thought it was kind of cool that they are putting emphasis on happiness (they have worked out a way of measuring it but yes I suppose it's arbitrary).
Sure we measure standard of living, but it doesn't have any clout as far as policy goes, it's all economy, economy, economy, growth, growth, growth.
take the pds for example. man I hate those guys.
I haven't read the PD thread yet, I'll do it now.

 

[oh shit]

what about the human development index?

 

[mazzyianne]

what about the human development index?

Clout dammit, clout.
enough of your backchat young man.
I'm reading a book called 'the end of Irish history: critical reflections on the celtic tiger, and it's dedicated to Joe Strummer.
how odd.

 

[oh shit]

my sister is reading that! or read it. or knows the guy who wrote it. or something...

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Clout dammit, clout.
enough of your backchat young man.
I'm reading a book called 'the end of Irish history: critical reflections on the celtic tiger, and it's dedicated to Joe Strummer.
how odd.

any good?

 

[broken arm]

how is the essay going? I have heard lots of similar ideas from individuals. I imagine the resistance came through the lack of a constant in terms of happiness. It is relative and issues such as culture, religion will play a part in the measurement. There has been a lot of interest recently in the incorporation of social factors in Life Cycle Analysis tools. LCA tools basically help a design understand the environmental and economic impacts of a product at all stages of it's development - from material extraction, component development, assembly, distribution, use and end-of-life. It is remarkably hard to do but interesting all the same. That is the problem with quantification. maybe instead of using exiting measurement tools to deliver new forms of measurement we need new tools.

and what was your dad doing at the WSSD?

 

[mazzyianne]

The book is pretty good, seems to predict a little prematurely the end of the Celtic tiger. I'd like to read the whole thing but I'm just picking through it to back up the points I'm making really. So when I said I was reading it.... lets face it I lied.

The essay is for Economics of Development so it's a nightmare to be honest, my head just isn't in these exams at all at all.
Boooohooooo (why is there no sad face, it's all mad and confused and embarassed, what wrong with just plain sad pete eh? eh?)

My dad was negotiating for the EU for climate change stuff when Ireland had the presidency, and then continued for the Dutch presidency too I think. Dunno how he got roped into it, it's not his field exactly, he's in development.
Sounded like a nightmare, sitting around with stuborn Americans for days,
'So... climate change'
'It doesn't exist'
'Yes it does'
'No it doesn't'
etc.

 

[broken arm]

what are you studying?

 

[mazzyianne]

Equality studies Masters in ucd

 

[xrockridgex]

thats weird cause just last week i had to do an essay on the same topic. it was only 1000 words though as a lecturer is very lazy. He said the actual word count was meant to be 2000 but if we could do it in a 1000 then go for it (wink wink).

 

[mazzyianne]

there's a really interesting book more generally on the negative impacts growth has called The Growth Illusion by R. Dowthwaite. It's got a chapter on Ireland and in general is really interesting, looking mainly at the environmental impact but lots of social stuff too.
If anyone is interested... im a nerd aren't I?...

I'm actually getting into the essay now. Wooooo!

 

[broken arm]

there's a really interesting book more generally on the negative impacts growth has called The Growth Illusion by R. Dowthwaite. It's got a chapter on Ireland and in general is really interesting, looking mainly at the environmental impact but lots of social stuff too.

http://www.feasta.org/

richard is one of the founders of feasta

 

[mazzyianne]

Ooooooooooooooo, Richard is it? coughnamedropcough

Well the essay is done, one down, four to go. fun fun.

 

[broken arm]

http://ms.groovygecko.net/groovyg/clients/trueblue/richard_douthwaite1_hb.wmv