So, erm, that article in the Times about the bank bailout everyone is reading (1 Viewer)

[nlgbbbblth]

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[Milker]

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'..our economic manhood..'??????

so we had a boner and wanked til it collapsed...nice analogy McCreevy.

 

[outoftheblue]

How is it that no Irish paper or news site has this story? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/15/ireland-portugal-spain-european-debt-crisis I mean, I understand why the government might want to give the impression that they're not for turning etc, but it's mysterious to me that no Irish journalist would pursue what's (or seems to be clearly) true; it just seems to get referred to as "international reports", if it's referred to at all.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

well,if we're gonna be forced to take a bail out lest we take italy/spain/portugal down with us,I at least hope the government has enough balls to get it at a decent rate that won't see us absolutely screwed for the next 50 odd years and also not at the expense of our low corporate tax rate.not holding my breath though.

 

[D0njo]

"10.37pm: Henry McDonald, the Guardian's man in Ireland, writes:

Irish Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has told this evening's meeting of euro zone ministers he has no mandate to negotiate a bailout package deal for Ireland"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/16/ireland-bailout-debt-crisis

There will be no bail out. If the IMF came in though we'd be completely fucked forever. MAY YOU LIVE IN INTERESTING TIMES

 

[Milker]

See the later installment about the multi-reversal of fortunes for ireland if the Brits have help bail us out? We are fascinating. We should tell the ECB to sort out the bank debt and leave the citizens out of it.

 

[ann post]

IMF!

Press Release No. 10/441

November 16, 2010

A spokesperson for the International Monetary Fund (IMF) issued the following statement today on Ireland:

"We welcome the intention of the Irish authorities to implement a decisive multi-year fiscal plan and measures to bolster and strengthen its financial sector.

"At the request of the Irish authorities, an IMF team will participate in a short and focused consultation, together with the European Commission, and the ECB, in order to determine the best way to provide any necessary support to address market risks."

 

[pete]

We should tell the ECB to sort out the bank debt and leave the citizens out of it.

whatever happens, that'll be the spin

 

[Lili Marlene]

From a simplistic point of view (which is about all I got on this issue), is it safe to say that

the govenment bailing out the Irish banks with an unlimited guarantee despite (if i remember correctly) the general consensus at the time being that this would be a terrible idea, has fucked the country up?

Or was this gonna happen either way, at some point?

 

[hugh]

From a simplistic point of view (which is about all I got on this issue), is it safe to say that

the govenment bailing out the Irish banks with an unlimited guarantee despite (if i remember correctly) the general consensus at the time being that this would be a terrible idea, has fucked the country up?

I would say that's pretty much it. Though I wouldn't say the general consensus was against it. As far as I recall, the general consensus, at least among the political parties, was that the bank guarantee was the right thing to do. I think the only one of the major parties who came out against it was Labour. Most of the media were supportive of it too (though I remember Fintan O'Toole criticizing it).

Though I suppose that not guaranteeing the banks would have caused a crisis too. But at least that would have happened two years ago and it might have been resolved quicker.

 

[shower another shower]

the rich get richer, the poor get the picture.

 

[billygannon]

The Irish government did a desperate thing by offering this guarantee. Everyone's backs were against the wall at the time and every government did fairly crazy things.
However the Irish government didn't know how screwed the Irish banks were. They wouldn't have made this guarantee if they knew the extent of the exposure of Anglo and AIB to wobbly property deals.
They shouldn't have done it - simply because it's snowballed and now it's an international issue. But we know that in hindsight.

All that said, this massive crisis has fully exposed the corruption in our banking and political systems. Fianna Fail, AIB, Anglo etc. can't claim any legitimacy and they all need to be wound up.

 

[Milker]

The argument the government used in defense against the charge that the 'bank bail-out' could cripple us was that letting some banks fail would banjax our credit rating and interest rating on loans and that a bail-out would have to really be way bigger than the banks were admitting to needing for it to be the costlier(?) of all options. They took the least costly of options hoping it would not be the most costly.

Anyone see Vincent last night? Who's the 'Paul' economist guy? He's the expert I'm rowing in behind.
He said the ECb want us to take the 20billion for the banks as sovereign debt so that they won't be responsible for the 100billion+ that's really needed.
He reckons a debt restructuring and forgiveness is the ONLY thing in our interest and that Lenihan et al have not a pair of balls between them.
Edit(sorry...'among' them...thanks Stephen Fry)

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

If I remember correctly there was never any question of letting AIB or BoI fold, and the advice from pretty much everyone to the minister was to bail out these banks and let Anglo and the other one go (national irish? irish nationwide). if that had happened most of the billions of euros worth of losses would have been borne by investors rather than the rest of us - is that correct?

 

[Lili Marlene]

How far into the next year are countries usually 'funded' anyway?

 

[Milker]

How far into the next year are countries usually 'funded' anyway?

No idea but i was wondering about that 'for every €3 we take in we're spending €5' ratio...how much in the red are you allowed to be? Is a country not generally in the red perpetually? Are we supposes to borrow zero? Is that realistic?

 

[Milker]

How far into the next year are countries usually 'funded' anyway?

No idea but i was wondering about that 'for every €3 we take in we're spending €5' ratio...how much in the red are you allowed to be? Is a country not generally in the red perpetually? Are we supposes to borrow zero? Is that realistic?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

don't think there's a limit on the amount your allowed owe as a country,they just make it up as a percentage of gdp,i think the eurozone punishes you if you go above 4%.

 

[ann post]

how much in the red are you allowed to be?

dunno

Is a country not generally in the red perpetually?

not really. (i mean it shouldnt)

Are we supposes to borrow zero?

yes.

Is that realistic?

no, but during the boom it was.

 

[nEiLo]

you think FF could fix it so Ireland won the Lotto.