What's the story with Frank Zappa? (1 Viewer)

flashback

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Here. I've seen a few Frank Zappa interviews and the lad seems to be an agonizing cunt altogether.



I've thought this for a while, but kept it quiet. I'm a bit of an agonizing cunt myself at times, so glass houses and all that.

But I'd be curious if I'm the only cunt out there who thinks this. Everyone seems to consider him a deity, a bit like John Lennon only with less beating of women. I can't really see a huge number of redeeming features of the cunt at all, other than his name, which is class obviously.

I'd like to know why I'm mistaken here.
 

nuke terrorist

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How did Beefheart and Brian Clough operate?

The same as MES?

Is it similar to how Bernie Rhodes tried to keep the Clash going with Mick Jones and Joe Strummer out of the band, arguing that they were all ultimately replaceable and the Clash should be like a football team. Cut the Crap, the album PiL could have been.
in MES' book Renegade there's a chapter about football and he lavishes praise on Brian Clough.
when I read a bio of Beefheart the books on the other two came to mind.

all of the trio were unique in their own fields and knew they it from a young age. rebelious outsiders who broke the rules but ruled their own organisations like dictators if it suited them.
uncompromising, rejecting conventions /establishment and setting their own agenda, falling out with people close to them and inspiring fear were all on the menu.

they often got hugely frustrated that people were not able to carry out their ideas and weren't afraid to say so.
they could be kind or very cruel and had people they picked on regularly but were surprisingly kind at times.
Beefheart was probably dyslexic so he was very dependent on musicians to realise his music ideas.

relatively few people they worked with had much critical to say about any of them as 'career' wise it was their best days and the results were spectacular.
Don started to suffer from MS towards the end of music career and Cloughie and Mark were alcoholics.

on the Beefheart boxed set, the demos of Trout Mask Replica are really interesting. they sound very similar to the end product. it must have taken a lot rehearsals to get it the way Don wanted.

EDIT: what I've written sounds a bit negative....
but however they did it they all got the best out people and took us all to places we'd never have been to otherwise END EDIT



Zappa's early records are cool but a lot of his work is awful.
his obsession with perfect musicianship was silly. Zappa comes across as a smart arse who points out the problems and doesn't really offer many solutions but I'm very glad he existed.
 
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Shine Vol. 2

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all of the trio were unique in their own fields and knew they it from a young age. rebelious outsiders who broke the rules but ruled their own organisations like dictators if it suited them.
uncompromising, rejecting conventions /establishment and setting their own agenda, falling out with people close to them and inspiring fear were all on the menu.

they often got hugely frustrated that people were not able to carry out their ideas and weren't afraid to say so.
they could be kind or very cruel and had people they picked on regularly but were surprisingly kind at times.

Very interesting!

Definitely throw James Brown in with that so, he ticks every box there. He's famous for fining his band members for mistakes on stage but less talked about is how he also tended to give those same people bonuses for a job well done about a week later.
 

nuke terrorist

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Very interesting!

Definitely throw James Brown in with that so, he ticks every box there. He's famous for fining his band members for mistakes on stage but less talked about is how he also tended to give those same people bonuses for a job well done about a week later.
should have thought of JB but I know less about him

being a genius and great band leader but not having the skills to do it all on your own. Prince didn't have to worry about that.
 

Shine Vol. 2

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should have thought of JB but I know less about him

being a genius and great band leader but not having the skills to do it all on your own. Prince didn't have to worry about that.
Prince created an entire sound and scene, complete with imaginary rivals, when it was mostly all him, although usually he's working with someone and they pull his sound in a certain direction (rock, funk, jazz, latin etc.). It's interesting how many of them ended up taking him up on the challenge though, Jam & Lewis were just members of the Time and went on to outsell Prince many, many times as producers.

I heard the weirdest thing recently, a recording of Prince forcing his girlfriend and photographer to jam with him; telling these non-musicians what to play on keyboards and drums I think, it's a mad listen. Absolutely pathological in his need to play music.
 

nuke terrorist

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Prince created an entire sound and scene, complete with imaginary rivals, when it was mostly all him, although usually he's working with someone and they pull his sound in a certain direction (rock, funk, jazz, latin etc.). It's interesting how many of them ended up taking him up on the challenge though, Jam & Lewis were just members of the Time and went on to outsell Prince many, many times as producers.

I heard the weirdest thing recently, a recording of Prince forcing his girlfriend and photographer to jam with him; telling these non-musicians what to play on keyboards and drums I think, it's a mad listen. Absolutely pathological in his need to play music.
wow! would love to hear that
 

Shine Vol. 2

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Weird that he hates Roxy Music but loves Bowie, no? Is it a coincidence that Roxy never really made it in America while Bowie did?

I'm always intrigued by the forces that lead to some British artists making it there and some totally flopping.
 

Cornu Ammonis

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Weird that he hates Roxy Music but loves Bowie, no? Is it a coincidence that Roxy never really made it in America while Bowie did?

I'm always intrigued by the forces that lead to some British artists making it there and some totally flopping.
Yeah, I found that surprising but Lou Reed was king of the hot takes.
 

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Weird that he hates Roxy Music but loves Bowie, no? Is it a coincidence that Roxy never really made it in America while Bowie did?

I'm always intrigued by the forces that lead to some British artists making it there and some totally flopping.
Wasn't he good mates with Bowie? Shared the same manager (who broke Bowie in the US), Bowie produced Transformer, etc... I guess Bowie and the glam scene at the time were still basically fairly unpretentious rockers, if a little androgynous- Roxy Music on the other hand were art school dandys.
Having said all that- I guess it's also just Lou Reed being a grumpy prick on any given day...
 

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The VU doc talks about how Bill Graham put them on the same bill as the Mothers of Invention when they went to SF, and the Velvets HATED the hippy scene there and saw the Mothers as the enemy. The enmity never faded.
 

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