US politics (1 Viewer)

Lili Marlene

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Nothing that hasn't been said before.

As we were saying in the other thread, Hillary lost big last time, Trump just about scraped by to victory. The Dems have learnt nothing but this time they're running a person who is largely liked (despite his actual record).
 

prefuse

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Nothing that hasn't been said before.

True, but I'm constantly amazed that the regular people still see him as one of them. It defies logic. He has nothing in common with them. It might be his best scam. In spite of all the chaos & craziness of the last few years he can still win a second term.
 

flashback

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His critics portray him as a fascist buffoon - but the president's secret weapon is that, to people in unfashionable America, he is still their guy


very selective use of... well "facts" going on here.

He's not going to build his border wall by the end of the year, but he does hope to have completed around 700km; he has made it much harder to get into America; and illegal immigration has dropped.

He's made it more difficult to get into the US? Has he? To get into? I'm not sure about that, but since he's helpfully given no references we can move on to the "semi-colon and illegal immigration has dropped". It has dropped. It's been dropping since 2006, and this GOP regeme hasn't changed anything about the drop or the rate of decrease.


But, he makes an arbitrary statement of opinion (how does he know it's more difficult to get into the US under Trump than pre-Trump), and he follows it up with something that's true and looks like it has something to do with that initial statement. It's not technically a lie, and his semi-colon gives him his out. He was just making two statements, any link between them was accidental. Got it.


He did this mostly through executive orders. And, when Trump takes personal control, things seem to get done.
End paragraph. Things? What things? What examples are we getting here? He just gets things done. OK. Got it.


His greatest achievement, in my eyes, is that there has been no war. Trump, we were told, was a reckless lunatic. He turned out to be more peaceful than Barack Obama.

I mean... ok. That's actually fair enough. He didn't actively start a war. We're at the point that if a US President doesn't actively start a new war we give him a clap on the back. Obama didn't actively start a war either, he just blew some more shit up, and continued to run terror campaigns in other countries. This happened under Trump too. And I don't think we thought he was a reckless lunatic, I think we thought he was a lazy sociopath. But he managed not to start a war, so congratulations I suppose.

Until the coronavirus, he had a better economic record, too. Obama's recovery was ups-and-downs; Trump's was near-seamless, capping a record run on Wall Street, a steady rise in household income and the lowest unemployment rate since 1969. This was no accident. Trump has slashed regulations and cut taxes, bribing companies to repatriate investment and jobs - and it's significant that, before Covid hit, Trump achieved the lowest unemployment rate for African-Americans in history.

So this is pure bullshit. Trump inherited a semi-not fucked economy from Obama, and now he's trashed it. I guess we're dealing with a Tory here, because he's breathlessly gushing about slashing regulations and bribing people while barely concealing his raging erection. The regulations that were slashed were mainly Environmental Protection Agency and health and safety regs, and it's cost people's lives.

The economy has been fucked, the stock market did OK for a while, but that's not the economy. Unless you're a Tory I suppose. You can lower unemployment rates by just booting people off the list. To portray Trump as anything other than a train wreck on the economy is a joke.

The president regards himself as progressive on race. He really does.

He regards himself as many things. Like handsome for example. That's different to actually being those things.

Yeah... no. This is a fucking awful weasel-worded piece. We know how Trump won. We know the Dems are mainly terrified Tories who keep having the wind taken out of their sails by the increasingly large fringe groups like fascists, and White Power. We know that Biden is a shit choice.

There is an interesting conversation to be had about how alienated and frightened the US public are, about how strange and subverted parts of the US society are, how in lots of ways the Dems and the GOP really are similar, and about how badly this ruling class has failed people. But this piece is none of those things. It's a Tory wanker talking about Tory his wanker world view, and normalizing and propagating lies from a fascist political party.
 

Lili Marlene

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True, but I'm constantly amazed that the regular people still see him as one of them. It defies logic. He has nothing in common with them. It might be his best scam. In spite of all the chaos & craziness of the last few years he can still win a second term.
Same as Boris Johnson I guess.

I remember circa 2005 or so mates telling me they voted Fianna Fáil because at least Bertie was an honest crook or whatever. Sake.

I don't think people vote against their interests at all, it's just when they're so cynical that they see no real hope from either side they'll vote for the guy who says "more jobs - less crime" over the guy who says "restorative justice for the historically disenfranchised."

Or more accurately, they just won't vote. Especially in a country like America that does it's very best to make voting impossible.

Obama won big time promising change and hope, Trump (barely) won promising change and MAGA. I have no idea how 2020 will go.
 
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egg_

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very selective use of... well "facts" going on here.
I think you're missing the point of the article. AFAICS what the author is saying is - here's how to squint your eyes so that you can see what Trump supporters see

(oh and btw - under Trump's presidency the US did achieve the lowest unemployment rate since 1969 (see United States Unemployment Rate | 1948-2020 Data | 2021-2022 Forecast | Calendar), and the lowest African-American unemployment rate ever (Unemployment Rate - Black or African American) ... I know these numbers aren't necessarily meaningful, but calling "pure bullshit" is just incorrect)
 

Unicron

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I think you're missing the point of the article. AFAICS what the author is saying is - here's how to squint your eyes so that you can see what Trump supporters see

(oh and btw - under Trump's presidency the US did achieve the lowest unemployment rate since 1969 (see United States Unemployment Rate | 1948-2020 Data | 2021-2022 Forecast | Calendar), and the lowest African-American unemployment rate ever (Unemployment Rate - Black or African American) ... I know these numbers aren't necessarily meaningful, but calling "pure bullshit" is just incorrect)

How many of those jobs were filled by people needing to do a second one to get by?
 

flashback

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I think you're missing the point of the article. AFAICS what the author is saying is - here's how to squint your eyes so that you can see what Trump supporters see

(oh and btw - under Trump's presidency the US did achieve the lowest unemployment rate since 1969 (see United States Unemployment Rate | 1948-2020 Data | 2021-2022 Forecast | Calendar), and the lowest African-American unemployment rate ever (Unemployment Rate - Black or African American) ... I know these numbers aren't necessarily meaningful, but calling "pure bullshit" is just incorrect)

No. See, that's what he's saying he's trying to do. If you look though, he never actually has that conversation. He couches what he says in plausible deniability "this is not what I think but i know what the proles think", and then he advances his Tory agenda. Less taxes, less regulation, and bribes apparently.

The things he talks about are not why he won, very few people give a fuck about that stupid wall for example.

He doesn't discuss alienation, distrust of elites, distrust of government, fear, absurd voting system, apathy, feelings of powerlessness and inevitability.

That's a really interesting conversation, but he doesn't go into any of that, he parrots some GOP talking points, and adds his chin-stroking right-winger taxes-r-bad-mkay narrative.
 

egg_

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He doesn't discuss alienation, distrust of elites, distrust of government, fear, absurd voting system, apathy, feelings of powerlessness and inevitability.
So he doesn't talk about what you think he should talk about - i.e. he doesn't parrot some Democrat talking points - and therefore he's full of shit? C'mon to fuck. Yes, his schtick about the economy being boosted by less regulation and tax is unpalatable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Fucking up the environment probably is good for GDP in the short term

Don't you think it's illuminating that the Dems have famous people at their rallies, while Trump has ordinary people? Don't you think there's something that might be learned from that?
 

flashback

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I don't think people vote against their interests at all, it's just when they're so cynical that they see no real hope from either side

I reckon it's a bit like that David Foster Wallace bit where the one goldfish asks the other how the water is. And the other goldfish replies: dufuk you talking about "water" (something along those lines).

I think a lot of people vote to be left alone. They aren't voting for or against anything other than this idea of getting other people/the government/society out of their business. Because they aren't part of society. Society is other people, it's not something they want to be part of.

While they drive home along a publicly funded road, navigating with their publicly funded GPS. And turn on the publicly funded electrical light, so they can turn on Netflix and wait for it to connect to the publicly funded internet. And then hop into the shower pouring water from publicly funded pipes into a publicly funded drain.

Those people don't want society impinging on their lives, they want to opt out and be left alone. On a day day basis they want to be left alone, they don't see the water, they just don;t want to have to deal with bullshit, and they'll actually pay money / take a hit if they get this. So, they'll vote against their own interests, if you create the narrative that along with that, you get peace.
 

flashback

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So he doesn't talk about what you think he should talk about - i.e. he doesn't parrot some Democrat talking points - and therefore he's full of shit? C'mon to fuck. Yes, his schtick about the economy being boosted by less regulation and tax is unpalatable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Fucking up the environment probably is good for GDP in the short term

Don't you think it's illuminating that the Dems have famous people at their rallies, while Trump has ordinary people? Don't you think there's something that might be learned from that?


The Dems aren't talking about it either. My point is he didn't talk about it, and it's an apolitical interesting topic.

And, very very very clearly the economy is now fubard under the GOP. Same as it's been under every other recent GOP admin. The economy doesn't stop / start the moment he takes power, it's a gradual changing of direction. It won't be magically cured under Biden either. It takes years.

The fact that the GOP ideals of slashing taxes on the rich to stimulate the economy has never worked suggests that it's wrong. Not the fact that it didn't work this time either.

And the celeb thing is bullshit, absolutely, and the GOP venerates celebrity as much as the Dems do. Trump worships at the alter of celebrity all the time. Trump's stock in trade is celebrity. That's all he's done. It's just the only celeb other than him they have is Kid Rock.
 

Lili Marlene

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Trump is a celebrity. Like, he literally played a successful businessman on tv for a decade. He doesn't need any other celebrities. The dems get in celebs, the republicans don't need to, they've short circuited the entire system, just like they do everything.
 

prefuse

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If I was American I couldn't never be a republican. I find almost everyone associated with the Republicans to be reprehensible human beings. The Fox News hosts, the radio conspiracy nuts, Ted Nugent, Ben Shapiro ect.... Just an unbearable bunch of cunts.
 

prefuse

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Part of my fascination with the Trump era is watching how people react to these con men type of characters.
 

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