US politics (3 Viewers)

flashback

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Gift.

So now we get to choose between a psychotic racist who's definitely a rapist, and a guy who might be a rapist and appears to be suffering from dementia to the point that he's slurring his words.

This is all coming up Milhouse!
 

7 - No tomorrow

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Sorry to see him go (as a potential national leader anyway), but I wouldn't be surprised if they get a Bernie protege as president in the next 10 years, he's sown a lot of seeds for his ideas among the younger population during his 2 presidential runs that will be hard to uproot.
The glitch with this is that if Trump gets in, he'll pack Scotus with three more Federalist Soc. picks and that's a Trump majority on there for the rest of our lives.
A brick wall for any President AOC or whoever else might carry Bernie's mantle and wants to change things.

We have to win this one or it hamstrings everything for a very long time.
 

ernesto

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The glitch with this is that if Trump gets in, he'll pack Scotus with three more Federalist Soc. picks and that's a Trump majority on there for the rest of our lives.
A brick wall for any President AOC or whoever else might carry Bernie's mantle and wants to change things.

We have to win this one or it hamstrings everything for a very long time.
You think Biden has a chance?!
 

7 - No tomorrow

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You think Biden has a chance?!
Sure he's got a chance
Every poll has him ahead
And Trump has never broken the ceiling on his popularity rating

We'll know more after the conventions, if we have those
And how well Trump manages to wiggle out of the Corona fiasco and other things

But Biden absolutely has a chance
 

flashback

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You think Biden has a chance?!
If Biden can keep stringing coherent sentences together, and generally not slurring his words too much, he's got a decent chance.

I know I live in the famous bubble, but I think there might not be as much support for The Generalissimo these days. Could be wrong...

Biden is an awful candidate. It's hard to tell from the onslaught of lies, but in recent interviews he seems to be unraveling a bit. His speech patterns and words remind me of my Mum as she was getting sicker.

Trump spews nonsense in the way a mentally ill person would, but he forms the words correctly. Biden seems to be slurring and not shaping the words perfectly in his mouth, almost like he sounds drunk? Maybe he was actually drunk, and that would be great. But if there's a problem it will depend on the rate of this decline.

The debates are potentially going to be terrifying to watch.

But, Bader Ginsburg likely won't survive another 4 years, meaning the SCOTUS would be permafucked unless Biden gets in.

Also Generalissimo seems unable to miss at any power grab he makes, and he's been making more recently. That's going to get way worse in a second term.

edit - Another possibility is that the decline of Biden is really fast, and the DNC is forced to acknowledge it. I doubt that would happen, but it's something that occurred to me.
 

hugh

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edit - Another possibility is that the decline of Biden is really fast, and the DNC is forced to acknowledge it. I doubt that would happen, but it's something that occurred to me.
That's what I kind of assumed was happening given what a low profile Biden has had in recent weeks. Was surprised that Sanders pulled out today ...... I was starting to hope that he just had to bide (ha) his time a bit and then he becomes the nominee.

Biden is an awful candidate. And by that I don't mean his politics as such but just the fact that Trump will massacre him in debates.
 

flashback

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That's what I kind of assumed was happening given what a low profile Biden has had in recent weeks. Was surprised that Sanders pulled out today ...... I was starting to hope that he just had to bide (ha) his time a bit and then he becomes the nominee.

Biden is an awful candidate. And by that I don't mean his politics as such but just the fact that Trump will massacre him in debates.
Yeah.

What I've anecdotally noticed was it's not a linear, worsening process. It's bad at times, and then it looks like it's better.

Meaning, you can kind of "weather the storm" a tiny bit, leave things settle, and the brain does rewiring and hey presto your voice is better. Obviously this isn't sustainable in the long run, but there are ebbs and flows when it comes to mental degradation.

I've heard the Trump will massacre him in debates idea a lot alright. I'm not convinced, because Trump is genuinely deranged, mentally unwell, and not that bright to start off with. He clearly can't string much of a thought or an argument together, be he can shout stuff, and he can drop into his box of catchphrases and whip one of those beauties out in some mangled form or other.

If Biden is actually able to form sentences, and speak properly, then he'll be OK in the debates.

The thing is, it's all academic. The Debates don't matter a fuck. Trump was an incoherent gobshite last time, and he'll be much the same this time. I don't think any Trump voters look at the debates and think: Oh, huh, I'm not sure I'm agreeing with this carefully thought out standpoint, I think I'll change my mind! I think they see their venerated blonde hero, and laugh at how hard he's *sticking it to those establishment nerds!!*.
 

Lili Marlene

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That's what I kind of assumed was happening given what a low profile Biden has had in recent weeks. Was surprised that Sanders pulled out today ...... I was starting to hope that he just had to bide (ha) his time a bit and then he becomes the nominee.

Biden is an awful candidate. And by that I don't mean his politics as such but just the fact that Trump will massacre him in debates.
What do you think of Biden's politics?
 

hugh

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What do you think of Biden's politics?
I think they are rubbish. What I know of them anyway.

And on the debate thing: it's not really about cogent, well articulated arguments, right? It's about projecting superiority, bullying, being confident, convincing people that you are "the man". All of which Trump is good at.
 

flashback

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And on the debate thing: it's not really about cogent, well articulated arguments, right? It's about projecting superiority, bullying, being confident, convincing people that you are "the man". All of which Trump is good at.
Oh yeah?

I don't know what the point of them is these days. I'm guessing at one point it was to do with... debating. Now it's more along the lines of The Voice: Political Edition, complete with some D-list celeb judge / moderator.

I haven't watched them for a while; unless Simon Cowell is judging them, I'm not interested.
 

Lili Marlene

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state of this

This is why Trump wins. and This is why Johnson wins isn't it?

40% on either side are hard for their camp and always will be. 5% are loud on the internet for their own weird ideological reasons (hi!) and then the final 5% choose the guy who seems a bit of a laugh. You have to be literally Barack Obama to get beyond that and even 2008 Obama would have his work cut out for him in 2020.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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WaPo likes Kamala for Veep

I still have a candle flickering for Liz


Aaron Blake,

The Washington Post
April 9, 2020 | 10:52 AM
Joe Biden is now the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, after Sen. Bernie Sanders suspended his campaign Wednesday morning.
The next big question in the race — beyond when and how Biden will be formally nominated amid a pandemic — is who is going to fill out the ticket as Biden’s running mate. The pick carries unusual importance, especially given that Biden, who will turn 78 shortly after Election Day, would be the oldest president ever elected so far.
We already know one thing about that pick: It will be a woman, as Biden pledged in a recent debate.

Below is a ranking of who makes the most sense to be that running mate.

11. Susan Rice
Hers may be the most outside-the-box name on this list, but Susan Rice has the résumé: She served on the National Security Council and in a high-ranking State Department role in the Clinton administration, and she was United Nations ambassador and national security adviser in the Obama administration. She’s also an African American woman and has recently shown an interest in elective politics, considering a run against Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, this year. The one most obvious drawback here: She was in line to possibly become President Barack Obama’s secretary of state but withdrew after the Benghazi, Libya, attack threatened to make her confirmation “lengthy, disruptive and costly,” in her words. She had come under sharp criticism for being misleading about the nature of that attack. That may not be a dealbreaker, but her public pronouncements turned her into a lightning rod, and Republicans would be happy to make Benghazi an issue again.

10. Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham
New Mexico’s governor won’t be a familiar name to many who follow national politics, nor is her state a battleground. But Michelle Lujan Grisham is among the relatively few Hispanic women who serve in high office in the United States.

9. Stacey Abrams
Stacey Abrams remains a popular pick on this kind of list, given that she ran a strong campaign for Georgia governor in 2018. But she’s still someone who hasn’t served in any office beyond the state legislature. It also may be tempting for Biden to pick her in hopes of putting an increasingly purple state in play — and some polls have suggested that’s not totally outside the realm of possibility — but you do wonder how much of a priority that will be, ahead of more-competitive states.

8. Sen. Tammy Duckworth
Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., arguably checks more boxes when it comes to her profile than anyone on this list. She’s a senator and former member of the House. She’s a Purple Heart recipient who lost both of her legs in Iraq and was the first disabled women elected to Congress. In 2018, she became the first senator to give birth while in office. And she’s got a diverse background as the daughter of a Thai mother of Chinese decent. She was one of the most hyped Democratic House candidates in the 2006 election but lost in a good Democratic year (albeit in a tough district). She was later elected to the House and went on to defeat Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., by 14 percentage points in 2016, while Hillary Clinton carried her state by 17.

7. Rep. Val Demings
The only House member on this list, Val Demings got her first taste of the national spotlight when she served as one of the House impeachment managers. She’s also an African American and former police chief of a major city, Orlando, Florida. Like Duckworth in 2006, though, she was a much-hyped House candidate in the 2012 election and lost. She went on to run for mayor of Orange County, Florida, but dropped out in 2015. She has also been in federal office for just over three years.

6. Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto
She’s the Latina politician with the best shot at being Biden’s pick. Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto was elected to the Senate in 2016 and previously served as Nevada’s attorney general for two terms. Winning Nevada shouldn’t be an issue for Democrats, as it has trended to the left in recent years. But it wouldn’t hurt to have an insurance policy.

5. Sen. Tammy Baldwin
This is the first pick on this list that comes from one of the true battleground states. Tammy Baldwin has served as a senator from Wisconsin since 2012, when she became the first openly gay person elected to the Senate. Two years after Trump’s narrow win in her state, she won reelection by 11 points in 2018.

4. Sen. Elizabeth Warren
When it comes to trying to unite the party after the Democratic primary, Sen. Elizabeth Warren might be the best pick. She overlaps with Sanders on many policies and could help make sure those voters don’t stay home or cross over to support Trump, as some did in 2016. At the same time, she’s also a septuagenarian who will turn 71 in June, which isn’t ideal as a backup for Biden. As a liberal senator from Massachusetts and former Harvard University professor with demonstrated struggles over her past claims to Native American heritage, it’s not difficult to see how she might be attacked.

3. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer
If Biden wants a running mate who hails from one of the three key states that Trump carried narrowly in 2016 -— Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – the Michigan governor makes the most sense. She’s also notably been among Trump’s most vocal critics during the coronavirus outbreak. Trump at one point said he told Vice President Mike Pence not to call Whitmer because of her criticism. That’s not to say she’s doing this for any reason other than she’s concerned about the federal response in her state, but this could be a key argument for the Biden campaign in the general election, and she’s been out front on it.

2. Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., did Biden a favor by dropping out of the race ahead of Super Tuesday and helping him win her state. She also earned strong reviews for her debate performances, and she has the kind of Midwestern appeal that could help in a state such as Michigan or Wisconsin. Her electoral history is pretty sterling. One drawback, though, is that she ran as a more pragmatic candidate in the primary and wouldn’t necessarily appeal to liberals who feel strongly about issues such as Medicare-for-all. That said, her Senate record is unmistakably liberal.

1. Sen. Kamala Harris
There’s a reason Sen. Kamala Harris, Calif., tops many of these lists: She’s perhaps the most logical choice. She’s the only black woman serving as either a governor or senator right now. Her presidential campaign flamed out after an early surge, and given her background as a prosecutor, it is easy to see playing the traditional VP role of attacking the opposition. At the same time, one person she attacked in rather personal terms during the primary was Biden, whose past position on busing she vehemently criticized, while comparing her own experience with the issue. The main criticism of her campaign was that it wasn’t really about anything, and even on busing, her position didn’t wind up being much different than what Biden’s had been. Perhaps having her own message will be less of an issue, though, when she’s running as part of a ticket.
 

flashback

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This might be a joke, or this might be real.

It's impossible to tell any more. There's a lot of people that would believe it as real. There's a lot of people that believe that 5G telco masts are transmitting the virus. Or the earth is flat. They really believe this.

In a way this: everything that everyone says is likely a lie designed to manipulate you, reality that we (i?) live in now is the most impressive thing about the Trump presidency, and its related enabling co-factors.

Initially I thought, ok, hunker down, maybe this shit stain will get booted out, he'll do some awful shit, and then it will be over. But he, and the Dominic Cummings / Cambridge Analytica / Facebook bots / Koch brothers et al. fraternity have changed reality.

Reality isn't the same any more. It's amazing.

We live in a dystopian Adam Curtis documentary. This concept of clashing realities might be how it feels to descend into schizophrenia, except... it's getting played out for all of us.
 

Lili Marlene

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This might be a joke, or this might be real.

It's impossible to tell any more. There's a lot of people that would believe it as real. There's a lot of people that believe that 5G telco masts are transmitting the virus. Or the earth is flat. They really believe this.

In a way this: everything that everyone says is likely a lie designed to manipulate you, reality that we (i?) live in now is the most impressive thing about the Trump presidency, and its related enabling co-factors.

Initially I thought, ok, hunker down, maybe this shit stain will get booted out, he'll do some awful shit, and then it will be over. But he, and the Dominic Cummings / Cambridge Analytica / Facebook bots / Koch brothers et al. fraternity have changed reality.

Reality isn't the same any more. It's amazing.

We live in a dystopian Adam Curtis documentary. This concept of clashing realities might be how it feels to descend into schizophrenia, except... it's getting played out for all of us.
I know what you're saying and i KIND of agree, but i also think we were just foolish to think that with more information available to us that the "facts" would become clear.

They've been litigating the facts and figures of the Holocaust for 75 or whatever years and thats the most written about and studied subject going. The same for pretty much every moment of every day of world war 2 in fact.

We're humans, facts are inhumane, to embrace the messiness is to exist to be human and to exist in the world. You can do this and still call out the liars. What was reality before now? A "peaceful" west that was busy extracting wealth from and murdering the global south while turning a blind eye? Gimme now over that.
 

flashback

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I know what you're saying and i KIND of agree, but i also think we were just foolish to think that with more information available to us that the "facts" would become clear.

They've been litigating the facts and figures of the Holocaust for 75 or whatever years and thats the most written about and studied subject going. The same for pretty much every moment of every day of world war 2 in fact.

We're humans, facts are inhumane, to embrace the messiness is to exist to be human and to exist in the world. You can do this and still call out the liars. What was reality before now? A "peaceful" west that was busy extracting wealth from and murdering the global south while turning a blind eye? Gimme now over that.
I see.

OK. So me thinking that accepted knowledge / facts are somehow more murky these days compared to say 10 years ago or something is naive on my part.

I guess on the one hand I'd probably agree, I was (and still am) not all that bright when it comes to this sort of thing. I'd agree with classifying me as naive.

But you're saying more: that there's always been this active pushing of misinformation at this level. I don't know if I believe that. But I'm pretty ignorant in these things, so I don't know. I have a Bush Jr gut feeling that it's stepping up over time.

The Holocaust is a whole nother thang, not going there. I'd fall into the Finklestein camp on that one.

But I get what you're saying. And I'm also aware that I'm out of my depth, Donnie.
 

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