US politics (1 Viewer)

flashback

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Whats his daughter doing there?

The yanks are all kinds of fucked up with the nepotism they stand for
Did you see the size of her tits?
Donnie did. Donnie loves those titties. And She's paving the foundation for her great political future.

And tits.
 

Lili Marlene

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Slate Star Codex, he's the guy who wrote that big Moloch essay isn't he? Good essay, i'm really iffy about his anti-humanity conclusions in it though.
 

egg_

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He is yeah. I think in the Moloch essay he makes the mistake of thinking a human can work out answers to life/universe/everything questions from first principles. Also I think transhumanism is horseshit

Still though. He has a lot of interesting and insightful shit to say, and that essay about outgroups has helped me understand American/Twitter in a way I never did before
 

Lili Marlene

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He is yeah. I think in the Moloch essay he makes the mistake of thinking a human can work out answers to life/universe/everything questions from first principles. Also I think transhumanism is horseshit

Still though. He has a lot of interesting and insightful shit to say, and that essay about outgroups has helped me understand American/Twitter in a way I never did before
Kay, just read it through.

Food for thought alright. It's been a good while since I read the Moloch essay but I think one of my issues with that is the same that I find in this essay, where he presents himself (and therefore, the reader) as the reasonable, apolitical sensible person just trying to make sense of this crazy world, and I don't trust anyone who tries to position themselves as outside ideology.

But I digress, it was a good read. I think I agree with you that it fairly well explains a lot of internet shouting.
 

flashback

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Ruh-roh, I wonder did somebody start chasing money trails.

It would be class if she owned it and ran in the Putin GOP primaries.


edit, duhhh. She's been hired to split the vote. Ahh. Got it.
 

Lili Marlene

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I can't believe it's going to be the election where, with a straight face., everyone accuses everyone else of being a Russian agent. Honestly, if the CIA suck that bad then Russia deserve to rule the planet.
 

flashback

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I can't believe it's going to be the election where, with a straight face., everyone accuses everyone else of being a Russian agent. Honestly, if the CIA suck that bad then Russia deserve to rule the planet.
They're not Russian agents. There's no doubt at all that they're funded by "Russian Oligarchs", which is essentially Putin et al.

Some of them know they are, eg Trump. Some of them retain plausible deniability. They accept the money, and they might even believe they are doing the right thing.

It's hard to believe Gabbard doesn't know that she'd split the vote and this would be advantageous to Trump.

It is that simple though: in the US (in lots of places but also in the US) you can purchase votes. You can purchase politicians, and you can bribe them openly. That's not even a contentious statement.

Russia is influencing these elections. The have really well funded agencies dedicated to it, they have bag men, Giuliani's bag men were arrested in Dulles the other day.

There's just no question about any of this. The only question is how much influence they have. If you believe Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, Cummings, and so on then it's a reasonable amount.

If you don't believe that funding pointed social media campaigns/advertising has any effect on elections, then all this money is being wasted. But there's no doubt the money is being spent.
 

Lili Marlene

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Russia's main export in 2019 is funny dashboard videos and the Russia of 2019 is more in the mould of the USA than the USSR in that both countries are effectively run by oligarchs and both "influence" elections worldwide; the USSR start facebook groups to fool the over 60s who still don't understand how the internet works and the US sets it up so entire political parties they dislike are murdered. People can decide for themselves which is worse for worldwide democracy.

From the outside looking in, I don't personally have a lot of time for either but I'm glad the youth of the USA are seeing through it and moving to the likes of Bernie Sanders rather than attempting to continue to fight the Cold War entirely in their own minds. They're the ones i'm watching, I put the people obsessed with trying to impeach Trump in a very similar bucket to the people following Q Drops.


What I still can't believe is that James Comey, who personally was in charge of the biggest civilian spying campaign in the history of humanity, still ongoing, was supposed to be seen as on the side of righteousness. Get outta town.
 
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flashback

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the USSR start facebook groups to fool the over 60s who still don't understand how the internet works and the US sets it up so entire political parties they dislike are murdered. People can decide for themselves which is worse for worldwide democracy.
The over 60s vote.

And the US is a shit power in the world, run by a piece of shit. The US venerates violence and racism, it's a shit country in a lot of respects.

But Russia is worse. Putin is worse than Trump, because Putin is not a senile doddering old cunt. I'll take Trump over Putin. Putin actually has his critics rounded up and shot. Trump just talks about it until he sees tits. Then he forgets to complete his sentence.

Russia doesn't even really pretend to be democratic any more. The US still just about is. Ish. Plus or minus the fact that the Electoral College is a joke.


> Sorry if that seems needlessly aggressive Flashback, I know you're sound.

You don't seem aggressive at all. I really like you, despite having not met you as far as I know. And I'm not sound. I'm a west Brit Yank at this point.
 

Lili Marlene

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I'd love a proper source on Russian news, I can't trust western sources for obvious reasons but I can't exactly trust RT either. I feel like I have to try and divine what's going on in there based on the few crumbs that escape.
 

ann post

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; the USSR start facebook groups to fool the over 60s who still don't understand how the internet
In fairness i think the people know how the internet works and being open to suggestion are two very different things. I (almost regrettably) went in on an americans/climate conversation this week on fb and it really brought home the power of mis information.

To misquote a contemporary fake philosopher:

"Once there is one doubt, there can be no certainty"

Nariyoshi Miyagi
 

Lili Marlene

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In fairness i think the people know how the internet works and being open to suggestion are two very different things. I (almost regrettably) went in on an americans/climate conversation this week on fb and it really brought home the power of mis information.

To misquote a contemporary fake philosopher:

"Once there is one doubt, there can be no certainty"

Nariyoshi Miyagi
I take your point but my mother (mid 60s, can use a computer and a phone/whatsapp/emojis etc. but isn't on social media) came home from her job the other day, "Lili" she said, "there's a guy in work talking about something called chemtrails, what's all that about?"

people are clueless to the nonsense that's been going on on the internet for the past 20 years. If my parents got on Facebook they'd have matching swastika tattoos by the end of the year.
 

ann post

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I take your point but my mother (mid 60s, can use a computer and a phone/whatsapp/emojis etc. but isn't on social media) came home from her job the other day, "Lili" she said, "there's a guy in work talking about something called chemtrails, what's all that about?"

people are clueless to the nonsense that's been going on on the internet for the past 20 years. If my parents got on Facebook they'd have matching swastika tattoos by the end of the year.
Fair enough. Ann's mother has been sending him 3am alien videos off youtube for a least a decade.

I'm thinking more and more that the worthwhile work with the climate debacle is probably talking to older people a lot rather than pushing boats around dublin.
 

flashback

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I'd love a proper source on Russian news, I can't trust western sources for obvious reasons but I can't exactly trust RT either. I feel like I have to try and divine what's going on in there based on the few crumbs that escape.
You just can't. It's no co-incidence, it's completely by design, but you can't. I work with Russians, and we've talked about this.

They just shake their heads and smile. News? No. you don't, and can't understand it. The concept of news is different. It's like this philosophical thing, there is no truth. News is a lie, information is a weapon. Did you see it? No? Well then don't form conclusions. Even if you did see it, it's up for debate.

It reminded me of when yanks would be over in Ireland, with a pint in them and start defending the IRA and stuff. Like, you don't even know where to start. You just shake your head, smile, and agree not to talk about it. There is no point, there's a fundamental gap in understanding.
 

Lili Marlene

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You just can't. It's no co-incidence, it's completely by design, but you can't. I work with Russians, and we've talked about this.

They just shake their heads and smile. News? No. you don't, and can't understand it. The concept of news is different. It's like this philosophical thing, there is no truth. News is a lie, information is a weapon. Did you see it? No? Well then don't form conclusions. Even if you did see it, it's up for debate.
See, I don't necessarily think this alone end of the world stuff, or even that strange. Newspapers have always been like this, some newspapers obviously have a better reputation for accuracy over others but only people who care about accuracy care about this. Accuracy is part of an ideological position: we are presenting the facts of this incident as they are, we don't print it unless it's been verified by two independent sources - fine, great but the blatent liars like the Sun were still the biggest selling papers back in the 80s and 90s, their inaccuracies didn't matter, they weren't selling accuracy, they were selling ideology.

The trick being pulled was being pulled on us, the whole neoliberal thing of tricking us into thinking that the accurate newspapers were ideology free, that history was over, that unions were a waste of time etc. etc. and next thing you know we were declaring war on Iraq because, well someone has to be the grown up in the room!


here, a great article came out this year on the FT vs. NYT


Now I don't hate the NYtimes myself but it has a point.
 
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flashback

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The trick being pulled was being pulled on us, the whole neoliberal thing of tricking us into thinking that the accurate newspapers were ideology free,
Yeah. I think it's even clearer to see and recognise now. You've got the BBC being clearly pro-Tory, offering up anti-vaxers, and racists, in order to have *both sides* of the debate. The BBC isn't a red-top, they're meant to be alright, right?

Nah. They are better than the Daily Mail and so on, but yeah, they're still a bunch of Tories where it matters.


Even The Guardian, they're good, they aren't Tory ideologues, but there's biases.

How many times do they need to mention that horrible prick who drove the Asian refugees was "Irish". I get it. I'm not sure that it matters that much, and... again, again, every article, every news outlet. "Well, yeah, might have happened in England, but, you know, Irish cunt at the center". Even though obviously the driver was an employee of some other group, he was *an Irish* person.

The attitude I was seeing with these Russian guys isn't completely wrong, they seem to think the world impossibly lie ridden. Nothing can be believed. The other end of the spectrum Broadsheet readers, who are generally completely sure what's written down is objective reality in written form.

I'm as guilty as any of them. If I read stuff in The Guardian (see west Brit, above) I'll basically believe it. Pretty much.
 

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