US Election 2020 (4 Viewers)

Who do you think will win?

  • Trump/Pence

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Biden/Harris

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • Monsoon/Heenan

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
wasn't you. i'd heard from at least one other person (a friend who used to be in the fingal ravens) about that.

to be fair, he also wrote a book about ghosts, so if there was anyone who'd know about a haunted bike shop, it's dave.
 
wasn't you. i'd heard from at least one other person (a friend who used to be in the fingal ravens) about that.

to be fair, he also wrote a book about ghosts, so if there was anyone who'd know about a haunted bike shop, it's dave.


goddammit. Are you saying that I just said "ghost bike shop" and you went, "ohhh yeah, the one in Hardings bike shop?"

This doesn't lend credibility to me imagining things or making the story up at all. Very annoying.

edit - sorry Pete. Sorry. Elections! Mad altogether wha?
 
They didn't get her permission, they didn't get her families permission, they never told any of them what was going to happen and they didn't tell them after it happened either.

It was theft it what it was. Theft of parts of an actual person. If they actually spent 20 seconds weighing up the ethics at the time and asked for permission it's likely the family would have given it because what difference would it have made? None. But they didn't get permission did they? They didn't ask. It's not ok and trying to play it down makes it worse, not better.
Not attempting to play it down but this is literally how medical science worked at the time. No one, regardless of background, throughout the world, was asked permission to keep their unwanted cancer cells.

And people were questioning practice and ethics in medicine but cancer cells were far from people’s minds because it was still the era of things like forced sterilisation, lobotomies, drug trials on unsuspecting members of the populace, electric shock treatment, etc. I’m not saying it was right or that people shouldn’t care but the ethical landscape was a far different place than it is now. Like, Josef Mengele was just setting up a new life in Argentina when Henrietta Lacks developed her cancer. Taking cells that someone actively wants out of their body* and culturing them in a dish kind of pales in comparison.

*Are cancer cells actually your tissue in the same sense as a skin cell or a blood cell? Or are they something separate and other like a parasite?
 
They didn't need to. I don't think they need to today either.

You sign away that right, legally, assuming you ever had it in the first place.

I'm not playing it down, or intending to. But... I guess.. I mean, yeah, it's unethical, we are unethical. Loads of things are unethical, and there has to be a scale built. I'd rate keeping a pig in a box, and ~torturing it until death way more unethical than keeping a cell line derived from a tumour cut out of me alive to do science on.

That's how they test, that's what they are doing when they take the biopsy, you are asking them to culture your cells. If they stop a week from now, or 100 years from now probably changes things, but on the grand scheme of things it's not evil I'd say.
much more tightly regulated today.
informed consent is now the basis of any research involving human subject.
there is a 'blanket' consent aspect, that say, if you have some tissue removed and sent to histology/chemical pathology, that excess material can be used for training and QC/QA purposes. but even thats in an anonymised/pooled sample model. In no way could that tissue be used for research purposes without a separate consent being signed.

plenty on this side of the water also:

- retention of organs from dead children in temple st (70s/80s/90s)
- vaccine trials in mother and baby homes etc.

To be honest there was still some borderline suspect practices around biobanking when I started working in hospitals 15 years ago, although thats all been very much tightened up (not least of all by Ireland taking the most draconian approach possible to GDPR implementation for healthcare in the HRRs)
 
Not attempting to play it down but this is literally how medical science worked at the time. No one, regardless of background, throughout the world, was asked permission to keep their unwanted cancer cells.

And people were questioning practice and ethics in medicine but cancer cells were far from people’s minds because it was still the era of things like forced sterilisation, lobotomies, drug trials on unsuspecting members of the populace, electric shock treatment, etc. I’m not saying it was right or that people shouldn’t care but the ethical landscape was a far different place than it is now. Like, Josef Mengele was just setting up a new life in Argentina when Henrietta Lacks developed her cancer. Taking cells that someone actively wants out of their body* and culturing them in a dish kind of pales in comparison.

*Are cancer cells actually your tissue in the same sense as a skin cell or a blood cell? Or are they something separate and other like a parasite?

Its an interesting one from a philosophical standpoint - but medically
cancers are graded by how distinct they become from the tissue of origin.
but a sample of your kidney and lung epithelia are distinct histologically - and remain your cells
Cancer cells still contain they still are your genes though - albeit they are acting the fuck.
 
Back on topic. On this day that a new US President is sworn in let us remember the main points of interest of the tenure of the last incumbent; organ harvesting, The Ghost of Harding's haunted bicycle shop, ...wait a minute...
 
Not attempting to play it down but this is literally how medical science worked at the time. No one, regardless of background, throughout the world, was asked permission to keep their unwanted cancer cells.

And people were questioning practice and ethics in medicine but cancer cells were far from people’s minds because it was still the era of things like forced sterilisation, lobotomies, drug trials on unsuspecting members of the populace, electric shock treatment, etc. I’m not saying it was right or that people shouldn’t care but the ethical landscape was a far different place than it is now. Like, Josef Mengele was just setting up a new life in Argentina when Henrietta Lacks developed her cancer. Taking cells that someone actively wants out of their body* and culturing them in a dish kind of pales in comparison.

*Are cancer cells actually your tissue in the same sense as a skin cell or a blood cell? Or are they something separate and other like a parasite?
All you dumb scientists have to do is say sorry but every one of you is incapable of it.
 
Anyway came here to post this


 
where we go one, we go all

uFpBYhm6QB5qB9ZNqNMs34.jpg
 

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