US Election 2020 (1 Viewer)

[Lili Marlene]

Cells are just cells though. If you start going down this route you end up holding Masses for all your jizz swimmers that end up blocking public water fountains etc.

Well no because nothing is ever just one thing and one cell is not just like another. If it were a) they would have just taken a random cells of matter off the floor and used them, and b) science is science, it is not life, "from a scientific perspective" is exactly that and nothing more.

It was unethical, but there does have to be some weighing done. HeLa cells have been massively helpful to science, and therefore humanity in general. Those cells have saved countless lives. The fact she didn't know about it sucks, but it's not evil in the way lots of other things are. It's dubious. But, realistically it had zero impact on Henrietta, to the extent that I don't think she ever even knew about it.

They didn't get her permission, they didn't get her families permission, they never told any of them what was going to happen and they didn't tell them after it happened either.

It was theft it what it was. Theft of parts of an actual person. If they actually spent 20 seconds weighing up the ethics at the time and asked for permission it's likely the family would have given it because what difference would it have made? None. But they didn't get permission did they? They didn't ask. It's not ok and trying to play it down makes it worse, not better.

 

[therealjohnny]

I don't see how all this speculation is going to help us find the pizza dungeon where Hilary and Bill drink kids blood

#onlyhecansaveus

 

[Lili Marlene]

so... it's actually quite difficult to lie in the US gov. Believe it or not.

Like, you can lie, obviously. But (as is beaten into me yearly) they have an insane record keeping system, and virtually everything is logged, somewhere. And a lot of people know about it.

If you lie (and I'm not talking about Shithead Orange Fat Fuck McRacist here - I'm talking normal gov people), you're ultimately probably going to get found out.

To lie about say, something like MKUltra not happening, or Aliens secretly visiting etc, would take a level of coordination that I don't think exists here. It would simply be too complicated and difficult to lie about that kind of thing, in the long run. Too many people know, too much stuff is written down. Sure you can get higher level of secrets, and I'm not involved in that obviously, but fundamentally all of these arguments are kind of scuppered by the general ineptitude of the people who purportedly run these massive lies.

So, on the whole, I don't buy them. (Again though, I'm talking about in the long term, it's easy to say a lie, it's hard to impossible to keep something like we're talking about covered up.)

Remember wayyy back in this thread (I think) you were talking about some Russian lads you work with who laugh at the idea of being able to tell lies from truth coming out of Russia, I think it's similar to that. If America learnt anything from Russian hackers it's probably about how to spread masses of not technically incorrect data to all sides, so no one knows wtf is going on. But yeah, if the CIA/NSA boss says something it's probably worth reading, I TAKE IT BACK GUYS.

 

[ann post]

my conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy theory: qanon is partly a folk movement of paranoid racists. but it is largely an intelligence operation being run by an external nation-state to destabilise the USA. or, more likely, several intelligence operations run by several nation-states. like opportunistic infections of an already-vulnerable patient.

I post this very much with my hot-take hat on. but I think it’s worth giving some consideration to.

In general terms intelligence ops like that are kinda documented to a point. One example is the facebook/twitter ghosts/bots that jumped on topics and amplified them, another example is inciting agents, trackable in what i've read back to ww2 when the brits had a whole department of rumours. One of those was that they had made a weapon that burned very hot on the surface of water invisibly, which was spread to spook germans thinking of landing on the british shores. It was an improv on some bodies from a shipwreck washing up somewhere. The pattern is to look for something destabilising and amplify it. It's kinda textbook stuff, though it'd be hard to get the books.

 

[flashback]

They didn't get her permission, they didn't get her families permission, they never told any of them what was going to happen and they didn't tell them after it happened either.

They didn't need to. I don't think they need to today either.

You sign away that right, legally, assuming you ever had it in the first place.

I'm not playing it down, or intending to. But... I guess.. I mean, yeah, it's unethical, we are unethical. Loads of things are unethical, and there has to be a scale built. I'd rate keeping a pig in a box, and ~torturing it until death way more unethical than keeping a cell line derived from a tumour cut out of me alive to do science on.

That's how they test, that's what they are doing when they take the biopsy, you are asking them to culture your cells. If they stop a week from now, or 100 years from now probably changes things, but on the grand scheme of things it's not evil I'd say.

 

[flashback]

Remember wayyy back in this thread (I think) you were talking about some Russian lads you work with who laugh at the idea of being able to tell lies from truth coming out of Russia, I think it's similar to that.

I do. I exactly remember that. And it haunts me.

I'm surprised that you remembered it. Alex was the guy's name. Heh. Something about that really shook me.

 

[flashback]

Remember wayyy back in this thread (I think) you were talking about some Russian lads you work with who laugh at the idea of being able to tell lies from truth coming out of Russia, I think it's similar to that.

It was worse than that though. I probably didn't portray how bad it really was. Reality was a flexible thing in the soviet union. Reality was not... real.

Like, people were not lying about certain things, because that reality had not occurred, therefore they were not lying.

It's hard to explain how fucked it gets. He was going through it in broken English too. If you start thinking about it various chunks of logic start falling away and you end up very confused, and you realise how weird and delicate sanity is. But it was a fundamental thing in the Soviet Union. And... well, you'd have to presume other places.

 

[Lili Marlene]

First you propose creating a scientific scale for measuring suffering and now you tell me that you don't think reality is flexible.

 

[flashback]

First you propose creating a scientific scale for measuring suffering and now you tell me that you don't think reality is flexible.

haha.

Correct.

I have to consign certain things to "fuckin... I dunno"

I saw a ghost in the bike shop I worked in. I mentioned it to the lads and everyone else just went "oh yeah, that's the ghost, it's fine".

I don't believe in ghosts. Ghosts don't exist. I'm a... well... paid to be a scientist. I don't know what to do with this information, it doesn't fit with anything else I understand. So I have to consign it to the "fuckin... I dunno?" bin. Because I don't know what else to do with it.

I struggle with reality and ethics at the best of times. I'm not a particularly bright person, and I just barely keep my head above water in most aspects of my life. I think realising how limited and stupid you are is a major part of growing up.

I don't know. But I have some opinions, which are fairly consistent... in most cases. But in general, I don't know.

 

[egg_]

Fucking simmer down @Lili Marlene god dammit

A "scientific scale for measuring suffering" me hole. Do you honestly think all bad things are equally bad?

 

[flashback]

Yeah, fucking SIMMER DOWN Lili!


hahaha. Nah. Lili and I are best buds. AREN'T WE LILI. I FUCKING SAID AREN'T WE?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Fucking simmer down @Lili Marlene god dammit

A "scientific scale for measuring suffering" me hole. Do you honestly think all bad things are equally bad?

That's what he proposed! Take it up with him! I'm not the one trying to justify body snatching here.

Yeah, fucking SIMMER DOWN Lili!


hahaha. Nah. Lili and I are best buds. AREN'T WE LILI. I FUCKING SAID AREN'T WE?

I learn a lot by saying the stupidest things and being corrected on here.

 

[flashback]

Hugs!


Come on @egg_ you know you want your hug too. Your struggling only makes it worse.

 

[egg_]

Body snatching? Oh man.

 

[flashback]

Those bodies enjoyed it.

 

[snakybus]

Back to elections, paedophile rings, inaugurations and Jamiroquoi bombing the Capitol, hugging pricks.

 

[pete]

Two national guards sent home for the inauguration because of extremist links, but not sent home from the national guard?

 

[flashback]

Two national guards sent home for the inauguration because of extremist links, but not sent home from the national guard?

oh right... news. Forgot about that.

Mitch McConnell is throwing Our Sentient Rectum in Chief under the bus. Fun.

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[Cormcolash]

Two national guards sent home for the inauguration because of extremist links, but not sent home from the national guard?

"You can't go around arresting the Thieves' Guild. I mean, we'd be at it all day!

 

[Kermit McDermott]

Rapper Lil Wayne in line for last-day pardon from Donald Trump

But sources say neither Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon or president himself are on the list

www.theguardian.com

It must be for that guitar solo he did.